QTR for silver prints

Hi,

I have been running a lot of tests to create a profile for silver prints lately. While the linearization is not so much of issue, I fail to create smooth gradations without "patterns."

Has anyone here made a good profile for silver prints here? Let me know your experience.

I am trying to see if this is the limitation of QTR and move onto something else or not.

Thanks!
Tsuyoshi

I've only experimented with it casually, but I did not detect any obvious patterning. I hope to make more prints that way in the future.

Perhaps you can share what materials you are using?

I tried it with an Epson 3880, using the 3 black inks, printed on Pictorico.
Arista Private Reserve VC Glossy and Pearl (thought to be the same as Adox MCP 310), no filtration, Liquidol paper developer, diffusion light source

--Greg

Greg,

Do you have a picture to show me. Would you be able to scan where smooth middle gray is?

I am using:
Epson 3800 with K, LK, LLK, Y, C, LM on pictorico
Ilford RC paper, Color head with no filter

Let me know. Thanks!

Tsuyoshi

Unfortunately, I don't have any of those prints around anymore. As I said, I had only experimented with it casually while experimenting with QTR profile generation methods.

There's no reason you shouldn't get excellent results from what you're using, but one thing you may consider is that when printing with VC paper, there are 2 emulsions on the paper, with different color sensitivities. So you may want to try just using black inks. How much of your colored inks are you using...can you post your ink limits or your complete QTR profile?

Lastly, and I apologize is this is an elementary question for you, but are you attempting to enlarge these? QTR negatives are typically intended for contact printing.

--Greg

Hi Greg,

This is for the contact printing.

The issue with QTR as I understand is the dither pattern that it uses. It is not using Epson's and is based on GIMP Print. Because of that QTR is somewhat limited in this regard.

GIMP Print (now Guten-Print) is improving, and now it can print at 5760dpi or has other features like Ultra Photo mode, which are becoming compatible with Eposon's technology. But Roy is not able to incorporate these new features into QTR.

For any alternative processes it is totally fine since paper itself cannot resolve them anyhow. But silver paper is a different matter.

I usually use 3 inks like you do with a little bit of color (yellow) for UV sensitive process. But different shades of black alone will not create smooth transitions for silver prints, and this is why I need to use other colors to fill the "gaps." I understand that VC paper is sensitive to Yellow and Magenta in relation to its contrasts, but there are no other colors that effectively block "visible light."

Thanks!
Tsuyoshi

shinnya said:

The issue with QTR as I understand is the dither pattern that it uses.

[...]

I usually use 3 inks like you do with a little bit of color (yellow) for UV sensitive process. But different shades of black alone will not create smooth transitions for silver prints, and this is why I need to use other colors to fill the "gaps." I understand that VC paper is sensitive to Yellow and Magenta in relation to its contrasts, but there are no other colors that effectively block "visible light."

Click to expand...

As I've said, I haven't noticed objectionable dither/patterning, even in carbon prints, which are capable of reproducing incredible detail. I typically use "Ordered" dither. Perhaps you can provide a scan from one of your prints of an area you find objectionable?

And technically, VC paper is sensitive to blue and green. Yellow blocks blue, allowing the green-sensitive (lower-contrast) emulsion to be exposed. Magenta blocks green, allowing the blue-sensitive (higher-contrast) emulsion to be exposed. Perhaps, in addition to the 3 blacks, you should try equal parts Y and M+LM? After determining the appropriate partitioning for M/LM, of course. The resultant orange-red color should appear to be "black" to the paper, since the only color being transmitted is red, and paper is not typically sensitive to red.

--Greg

You should not get any pattern appearing, as long as you are printing at 360 dpi or higher and using the highest dither, optimized your ink levels to the maximum possible. Use all inks, but keep cyan levels low as it tends to lower contrast. Magenta and yellow will need to be optimized for printing on VC paper (M>Y), and I use grade 2 on my Saunders head. I just use the enlarger to expose. You will find that different silver gelatin papers require different ratios of M and Y. It is very important to first optimize your ink levels. I am using a 4880 and 7880.

Mike

All I know of recent studies is from Jon Cone; "Cone Editions" aka Inkjetmall.com. Using combination of QTR of five-seven blacks and with DPN PS curves, the digital neg is compatible with B/W silver prints as well Alt. processes... but I am only just getting into this system and hoping others within the forum will have experience that they might share their experiences with this system.

james

I am coming back to this topic again.

Mike do you have a print that you can share with me? Or better yet, gray chart in silver prints while you made during calibration process?

Let me know!

Tsuyoshi

Michael P. Rosenberg said:

You should not get any pattern appearing, as long as you are printing at 360 dpi or higher and using the highest dither, optimized your ink levels to the maximum possible.

Mike

Click to expand...

Sorry not to have responded earlier, I don't visit here often.

I can send you calibration prints, curves, and QTR files. I am using both a 4880 and 7880 with Epson inks, except for cyan.

Contact me at mprosenberg_at_earthlink.net.

Mike
Michael P. Rosenberg's website