Q about double coating kallitypes

[Colin Graham]

I want to try double coating and was wondering if there's a window for applying the second coat of solution to Arches Platine paper. Also, I'm using citric acid to clear, would I need something stronger or two separate baths maybe? Thanks for any advice.

 

[Loris Medici]

Hi Colin, can't help you with Arches Platine since I haven't used it before but will make a suggestion - if you don't mind:

I presume you choose to double coat because you need the strongest dmax you can have. Double coating - at least to me - is often a tricky practice with mixed results. Have you tried gold toning your Kallitypes? Gold toning greatly increases dmax and longevity of the print. Try it and see if you like the resulting color and dmax. Another option for good dmax is to coat the print later with diluted (for a matte finish) or undiluted (for a pearl / glossy finish) polyurethane (Hydrocote Polyshield Clear Gloss) or beeswax or snake oil... and such. I get log 0.3 - 0.4 dmax increase by applying polyurethane to the print. One good thing about polyurethane is: it will seal the print surface (when used undiluted) and protect it from dirt (and even moisture - you can wipe the surface with a damp cloth without disturbing the print). You can exhibit your prints without glass when you seal the print that way...

Regards,
Loris.

 

[chrobry]

Colin,
you may like to read my thread about grain problem with kallitypes on Arches Platine. There was a suggestion from Dana Sullivan that this effect might be due to my incorrect double coating technique. She suggested some solutions and I guess you might be interested to read her post,

good luck,

Jan

 

[Colin Graham]

Hi Loris, thanks for the reply. Dmax isn't necessarily an issue, I'm just starting out and just want to explore some variables, but I am getting the sense that double coating might be more trouble than it's worth. Thanks for the suggestions.

Hi Jan, I have read your thread but didn't want to hijack it with my own questions. I am planning on trying her technique with distilled water as the primary coat, but will probably keep using K dichromate as I'm using dual purpose negatives and need it to tweak the contrast. Also I've used up to 5ml per liter w/ citrate and haven't noticed any grain issues. Funny, I started down this road because of frustrations with silver paper consistency but now wonder if I've bounced out of the frying pan and into the fire. My luck with Platine has been good so far though. Many thanks.

 

[Jim Noel]

In my mind, double coating is a waste of time and materials.
I single coat with plenty of sensitizer, and my negatives have a tonal scale appropriate for kallitype. These provide me with excellent d-Max as well as a good tonal scale.

I do gold tone on occasion because i like the color.

I don't like the idea of coating the finished print with polyurethane, but have waxed occasionally. I prefer not to do either.

It sounds like your clearing may be inadequate. You should be using a minimum of 2 clearing baths, changing them as soon as the second shows any color. Three clearing baths are much preferred, again changing as soon as #3 shows any sign of color.

My normal procedure is to make the first rinse with acidified water, a little citric acid, and clear in three baths of EDTA + sodium sulfite. This process clears most papers for me better than any other combination.

 

[Colin Graham]

Jim, this is interesting to me because my prints come out of the developer pretty much cleared, so I was just using the one bath of citric acid which never seems to discolor. Although I'm only making 8-10 5x12 prints in a session at this stage.

 

[philsweeney]

Some papers do not double coat well. I use COT-320. I usually let the first coat air dry 20 minutes. Same dry time for second coat. Clearing with citric acid should be fine.

 

[Colin Graham]

Thank you Phil, I wasn't sure if it the first coat had to be wet still or dry.

 

[Jim Noel]

Jim, this is interesting to me because my prints come out of the developer pretty much cleared, so I was just using the one bath of citric acid which never seems to discolor. Although I'm only making 8-10 5x12 prints in a session at this stage.

Colin,
Yes, prints do come out often looking cleared. However they probably are not. One of the reasons given by historians for the lack of 100 year old kallitypes is that they faded away. This is not the only reason given, but it is one.
I have seen some of my early ones which I thought were cleared begin to tunr yellow in a few months.Since I have begun using my more complete processing, I have not observed that problem.

By the way, if these are in camera negatives, I envy your ownership of a 5x12 camera.

 

[doughowk]

I had tried double-coating a few hours apart & got poor results, so will try coating only 20 mins apart. This may be good for those papers that are hard to coat evenly.
As far as clearing & longevity, I've been using Dick Stevens developer formulae (includes tartaric acid); and haven't noticed any problem with clearing bath. I also have been using Sandy King's gold-toning step before fixing which should increase permanence.

 

[sanking]

If I double coat the second coating is brushed on as soon as the first coat is dry to the touch. I apply the second coat, aim a fan on it for a minute while the print is flat, then hang to dry with air directed from the fan. I always begin to print at 15 minutes from the end of the second coat, and keep the RH in the work room at 55% to 65%.

Clearing prints that have been double coated can be more difficult than single coated ones. It helps if you hit the print with a blast of warm air from a hair dryer as soon as the first and second coating go on the print. This will keep the emulsion on the surface of the paper.

My comments here apply to both kallitype and palladium since except for certain steeps the chemistry and development procedures are identical.

Sandy King

 

[Colin Graham]

Thanks everyone for the clarifications, very helpful. Lots of new stuff to try out.

Jim, yeah, I made a 5x12 last year, what a great format! I really like the size for contact prints.