Pyrocat P. Mixing and shadow details

My father was an ardent Rodinal man, and since he taught me my basic B&W skills he pretty much made me into a Rodinal man as well. Nevertheless, a few months ago I became interested in trying a pyro developer and I ordered some Prescysol. The results I achieved, particularly in the control of highlights on modern medium speed films, impressed enough to try to mix some pyro developer myself. After some reading I decided on Pyrocat P since it contained p-aminophenol and appeared to be reasonably straightforward to mix. I followed the original recipe, which contains potassium iodide, and mixed the A solution in propylene glycol. I am a bit ambivalent regarding the results that this first mix gives me. I get sparkling highlights and rich, creamy, mid tones, particularly on Tri-X. But I find that my negatives, compared with my normal results with Rodinal, lack details in the shadows even when I expose at half the rated speed. The difference may be slight, but even when I use stand development (1+1+150 @ 21°C for 35 minutes) with FP4+ (EI 64) for medium contrast scenes I find the shadows weak compared with FP4+ in Rodinal 1+50, EI 100, intermittent agitation.

Apart from my problem with shadow details I am very happy with the developer. But I believe that I have made something wrong when I mixed it, or when I decided to add potassium iodide to the mix (even when a restrainer is unnecessary in Pyrocat P), since I have read that several users are quite happy with the shadow detail that they are getting. Given that I tried various development methods, different films, temperatures and concentrations I believe that I should try to make a new mix.

Now to my questions: I followed Mr King’s instructions, made sure that all ingredients went into solution, and I have been careful not to contaminate the A and B solutions. Have I nevertheless made a beginners mistake somewhere during the mixing process?

I understand that shadow detail is quite subjective in practical photography, but is it unfeasible to try to achieve the same amount of shadow detail that I am used to when using Rodinal? I hope that it is since I am getting mid tone tonality from Tri-X in 35mm that reminds me of medium format.

Will leaving potassium iodide out of the developer improve the shadows, or should I try Pyrocat PC instead?

I might add that I used less than a gram of potassium iodide in one litre of A solution. I ordered the chemicals from Retro Photographic, except for the glycol that is medical grade. I have tried the developer on the already mentioned Tri-X and FP4 as well as HP5 and Delta 100. I have tried it on 135, 120 and 4X5 and developed the film in Paterson and Combiplan tanks, used plain water as a stop bath and used Ilford Rapid Fixer. I have printed the negatives on MG IV and Emax graded paper using a LPL 7450 enlarger with VCCE module.

Thanks

Claes

I couldn't tell by your message if you've actually printed negatives or are judging by inspecting the negatives. If this is the case, you may find that more detail will print than expected. I've not used the P version but I've found this to be true with the HD and MC variants.

Uhner said:

Will leaving potassium iodide out of the developer improve the shadows, or should I try Pyrocat PC instead?


Thanks

Claes

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I do not know, Claes. I mixed my Pyrocat P with no Potassium Iodide and my shadow detail is excellent. I semi-stand develop 8x10 TMY, Efke 100 and Efke 25. I contact print all of my negatives. I also develop these films semi-stand in Pyrocat-MC-Glycol with virtually identical results to those I obtain with Pyrocat P and Pyrocat HD. There is no potassium iodide in any of my Pyrocat stock A solutions.

craigclu said:

I couldn't tell by your message if you've actually printed negatives or are judging by inspecting the negatives. If this is the case, you may find that more detail will print than expected. I've not used the P version but I've found this to be true with the HD and MC variants.

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I’m sorry for being unclear. I have printed a selection of my negatives.

Claes

Potassium iodide is strong restrainer. Leaving it out for sure will enhance the shadow detail. I was also Rodinal-man for a long time. After trying various developers I am now happy with Pyrocat-MC. I am also using it 1+1+150 @ 20C with minimal agitation.
Best luck
luben

I've used Pyrocat P and PC without the idodide for several months. My shadow details are sufficient for me.
juan

karavelov said:

Potassium iodide is strong restrainer. Leaving it out for sure will enhance the shadow detail............luben

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After my first batch of Pyrocat-HD I started leaving out the bromide (as it was then) and have had no problem with fog. Iodide is, as Luben has said, strong (stronger than bromide). I think Sandy said that the bromide/iodide is needed only if absolute minimal fog is required as is the case with some alternative processes.

Having said that, I still find that I don't get good shadow detail with pyrocat unless I'm very careful with exposure. Part of the reason is undoubtedly that I deliberately develop to a lowish contrast.