Pyrocat-P failures

lensmagic · Feb 28, 2007

I have developed dozens of rolls of TMY and dozens of 8x10 TMY films in Pyrocat-HD with no problems. I switched to Pyrocat-P for its supposed improvements. I mix my own chemicals, which I obtain from PF. I have now developed eight rolls of 120 TMY and four rolls of 120 TMX in four separate processing sessions. Each roll developed in Pyrocat-P demonstrates a number of artifacts which I would describe as random non-linear amorphous indistinct smudges, swirls and streaks, which are less dense than the surrounding image. The artifacts do not appear in the film edge or between frames. I have tried varying subject matter, developer dilution, and development time; have used acid and alkali fixer, 5:00 and 2:00 pre bath, and have tried including and omitting the sodium metabisulfite in the A solution. The films, apart from the artifacts, are robust and tan in color like Pyrocat-HD negs. The films were processed at 24C in a Jobo with continuous, slow rotation. The film is fresh, won't expire for over a year, and has been kept refrigerated. I used the same potassium carbonate as with the Pyrocat-HD. The Pyrocat-P turns purple when the A and B solutions are combined. The developer is mixed in distilled water, not glycol, and the A solution is mixed fresh for each processing session. I let the A solution sit for an hour before putting it to use. I have run out of suspects. If you can suggest how I can get rid of the artifacts, please let me know.

juan · Mar 1, 2007

How large are these artifacts? I've been using Pyrocat P (sodium carbonate) with Efke PL100 and had some problems I've attributed to the film, rather than the developer.
juan

lensmagic · Mar 1, 2007

Juan, the artifacts don't have distinct edges or regular shapes, so I can't make a definite measurement. They don't cover the whole frame. Some are round, some are long. They aren't glaringly obvious. It appears to me that for some reason the development is uneven. If I had a scanner I would send a picture. Thank you for your reply.

fhovie · Mar 1, 2007

I have been using -P since Sandy put out samples for testing - The only difference from HD that I can see is how it processes the midtones. I have never had any failures with it ever. I use it on TRI-X and FP4 in MF and LF formats in 1:1:150, 1:1:100 and 2:2:100 configurations for regular, semistand and alt process use negs. Unless you have some "defective" chemical or bad film, I have not seen anything in the formula that explains this.

juan · Mar 1, 2007

I guess you mean the defects are rather small - or what I would consider small as I'm used to an 8x10 negative. I have not seen defects such as that.
juan

sanking · Mar 1, 2007

lensmagic said:
I I used the same potassium carbonate as with the Pyrocat-HD. The Pyrocat-P turns purple when the A and B solutions are combined. The developer is mixed in distilled water, not glycol, and the A solution is mixed fresh for each processing session. I let the A solution sit for an hour before putting it to use. I have run out of suspects. If you can suggest how I can get rid of the artifacts, please let me know.

I tested the Pyrocat-P fairly extensively for about 6-8 months after introducing it and never saw any kind of unusual develoment artifacts. Since then I have not used it again since I determined that for my own use the Pyrocat-MC formula has some advantages.

Perhaps because I have not actively promoted the formula there has not been a lot of feed-back from other users. However, there are a handful of very high-end users who have gotten back to me and none of them has reported any kind of artificat of the type you describe.

I can not tell you what is wrong, however there is nothing about the formula that would suggest a reason for the kind of artifacts you describe, and this is the first report of this kind I have seen. And BTW, a purple color to the mixed working solution is normal. The A solution, by itself, should not be purple.

Sandy King

gainer · Mar 1, 2007

I have used Pyrocat PC dissolved in glycol, in which p-aminophenol base is used and ascorbic acid, no more than 2 grams per liter of stock, is used in place of sulfite or bisulfite. I have not seen any problems such as you describe, but I seldom use larger than 35 mm film. I have also used Pyrocat HD and Pyrocat MC.

lensmagic · Mar 1, 2007

Thank you all for your responses. Juan, my earlier response to you was not very helpful as to the size of the artifacts. If I said they are dime sized or penny sized, that would be a good generalization. Also, Juan, you have given me an idea. I will do some more testing and will report back to the forum tomorrow.

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 1, 2007

lensmagic said:
I have developed dozens of rolls of TMY and dozens of 8x10 TMY films in Pyrocat-HD with no problems. I switched to Pyrocat-P for its supposed improvements. I mix my own chemicals, which I obtain from PF. I have now developed eight rolls of 120 TMY and four rolls of 120 TMX in four separate processing sessions. Each roll developed in Pyrocat-P demonstrates a number of artifacts which I would describe as random non-linear amorphous indistinct smudges, swirls and streaks, which are less dense than the surrounding image. The artifacts do not appear in the film edge or between frames. I have tried varying subject matter, developer dilution, and development time; have used acid and alkali fixer, 5:00 and 2:00 pre bath, and have tried including and omitting the sodium metabisulfite in the A solution. The films, apart from the artifacts, are robust and tan in color like Pyrocat-HD negs. The films were processed at 24C in a Jobo with continuous, slow rotation. The film is fresh, won't expire for over a year, and has been kept refrigerated. I used the same potassium carbonate as with the Pyrocat-HD. The Pyrocat-P turns purple when the A and B solutions are combined. The developer is mixed in distilled water, not glycol, and the A solution is mixed fresh for each processing session. I let the A solution sit for an hour before putting it to use. I have run out of suspects. If you can suggest how I can get rid of the artifacts, please let me know.

I mixed a liter of Pyrocat - P Stock A dissolved in propylene glycol, and I use a potassium carbonate B solution. Purple (violet) is the normal color that results when the A and B solutions are combined. I have not seen any problems such as you describe (i.e. smudges, swirls and streaks), and I develop Kodak TMY and Efke PL100 8x10 sheet film, 120 roll film and 35mm film in Pyrocat - P.
I have compared my Pyrocat - P results against Pyrocat HD and Pyrocat MC and I get comparable results. However, I have found that for my work, I prefer the microcontrast chacteristics I get with Pyrocat MC. I develop with minimal agitation.

lensmagic · Mar 2, 2007

Mystery solved!!
I developed one roll of TMY 120 in Pyrocat-P in freshly mixed A (no sodium metabisulfite) and B solutions (1.25:1:100), and developed for eight minutes in the Jobo. The resulting negatives have no artifacts! That begged the question: When I developed all those earlier films didn't the purple color indicate good developer?? So I mixed a 1.25:4:100 developer solution using the OLD B solution and developed for eight minutes. The resulting negatives showed greater contrast than the first, but again, no artifacts. So I conclude my stock B solution went bad. It was over a year old. I had thought potassium carbonate was the gold standard for stable longevity, but I proved myself wrong. I was depressed, dejected and demoralized when I posted my problems, so I am relieved and pleased to get the good quality Pyrocat-P negatives. I want to thank all who submitted responses. I especially want to thank Sandy for generously sharing his knowledge and experience.

sanking · Mar 2, 2007

lensmagic said:
Mystery solved!!
I developed one roll of TMY 120 in Pyrocat-P in freshly mixed A (no sodium metabisulfite) and B solutions (1.25:1:100), and developed for eight minutes in the Jobo. The resulting negatives have no artifacts! That begged the question: When I developed all those earlier films didn't the purple color indicate good developer?? So I mixed a 1.25:4:100 developer solution using the OLD B solution and developed for eight minutes. The resulting negatives showed greater contrast than the first, but again, no artifacts. So I conclude my stock B solution went bad. It was over a year old. I had thought potassium carbonate was the gold standard for stable longevity, but I proved myself wrong. I was depressed, dejected and demoralized when I posted my problems, so I am relieved and pleased to get the good quality Pyrocat-P negatives. I want to thank all who submitted responses. I especially want to thank Sandy for generously sharing his knowledge and experience.

Hi Lensmagic,

Very glad you solved the problem.

And thank you for your kind comments.

Best,

Sandy

Pyrocat-P failures

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