Pyrocat HD presoak time critical?

I've been using the 5 minutes recommended by SK in his article http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/PCat2/pcat2.html. I noticed on that site at http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Pyrocat/pyrocat.html a two minute presoak time is recommended for rotary development.

I'm using a Jobo CPA w/ 3006 drum (typ. temps around 22C/72F). Is the presoak time really critical or can my 5 minutes run a bit long or a bit short?

Is too much presoak possible (at reasonable times like 5-10 minutes)?

How much is "not enough" 1 min., 2 min.?

Is there a difference with "new" films like TMAX, Delta, and Acros vs. "old" films?

And since I've still got a minute to kill before getting back to the Jobo, why did Jobo recommend NOT using a presoak with Xtol, but a presoak with other developers?

Back to Jobo now...

Dave

Dave Swinnard said:

I've been using the 5 minutes recommended by SK in his article http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/PCat2/pcat2.html. I noticed on that site at http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Pyrocat/pyrocat.html a two minute presoak time is recommended for rotary development.

I'm using a Jobo CPA w/ 3006 drum (typ. temps around 22C/72F). Is the presoak time really critical or can my 5 minutes run a bit long or a bit short?

Is too much presoak possible (at reasonable times like 5-10 minutes)?

How much is "not enough" 1 min., 2 min.?

Is there a difference with "new" films like TMAX, Delta, and Acros vs. "old" films?

And since I've still got a minute to kill before getting back to the Jobo, why did Jobo recommend NOT using a presoak with Xtol, but a presoak with other developers?

Back to Jobo now...

Dave

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Dave,

In spite of earlier recommendations for five minutes that you find in some of my writings, I believe two minutes is fine for the Jobo and other forms of continuouos agitation.

For stand and other minimal agitation schemes I would still recommend a pre-soak of five minutes.

Sandy

Thanks for this Sandy.

sanking said:

Dave,

In spite of earlier recommendations for five minutes that you find in some of my writings, I believe two minutes is fine for the Jobo and other forms of continuouos agitation.

For stand and other minimal agitation schemes I would still recommend a pre-soak of five minutes.

Sandy

Click to expand...

Sandy, what's the agitation regimen for the presoak, for semi-stand?

jstraw said:

Sandy, what's the agitation regimen for the presoak, for semi-stand?

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I pre-soak in a water bath, and just roll the tubes around. Alternative, if the tubes are PVC and don't float you can just fill the water in the tray to cover the tubes and just let them stand most of the time. Moving them around a few times, though, is probably good.

BTW, many people ask why the pre-soak is so important with stand agitation. The answer is that when film is first wetted out there is some escaping of gases that have been trapped in the emulsion. The pre-soak period tends to get rid of all of these gases. If you were to begin development immediately, chances are a few of the bubbles would come out and settle on the emulsion of the film. If this were to happen the result would be a spot on the film that is deprived of any developer exchange, although some of this takes place laterally. However, it would cause a small spot that would grow and grow since there is no agitation to remove it. I have seen spots on roll film of this type 3-5mm across.

Sandy

My semi-stand will be in hangers in stainless tanks. I can do the 5 minute presoak in a stainless tank 30 seconds initial agitation of the hangers and then say, 10 seconds each minute for the remainder. Would that be satisfactory?

jstraw said:

My semi-stand will be in hangers in stainless tanks. I can do the 5 minute presoak in a stainless tank 30 seconds initial agitation of the hangers and then say, 10 seconds each minute for the remainder. Would that be satisfactory?

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Michael,

A word of caution, the drain holes in SS hangers are notorious for adding density to even toned areas of the negative in normal processing, I can only imagine with Reduced Agitation methods this will be magnified.

I develop one sheet of film at a time, sometimes, several different tanks each with only one sheet.

Sandy's suggestion of vigorous initial agitation once in developer helped alot in eliminating uneven development I sometimes experienced. After that initial agitation my technique is an up and down gentle motion, never, never a stirring action.

Negatives are evenly developed with only rare artifacts.

Steve Sherman said:

Michael,

A word of caution, the drain holes in SS hangers are notorious for adding density to even toned areas of the negative in normal processing, I can only imagine with Reduced Agitation methods this will be magnified.

I develop one sheet of film at a time, sometimes, several different tanks each with only one sheet.

Sandy's suggestion of vigorous initial agitation once in developer helped alot in eliminating uneven development I sometimes experienced. After that initial agitation my technique is an up and down gentle motion, never, never a stirring action.

Negatives are evenly developed with only rare artifacts.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Steve. That is how I agitate with hangers in tanks as well. I'm going to do my first semi-stand in these tanks this evening and will post about the results.

I'm a five minute man myself with PCAT.