Pyrocat HD - High Contrast dilemma

[KOG]

I'm getting too much contrast with Pyrocat HD in Glycol. Along with the high contrast, I'm also getting a 2-2.5 stop reduction in box film speed!

I've checked the usual problem areas, but every thing seems normal (for me).
The scene metered zone 3-7, light meter matched other light meters, two cameras, three different types of film, used distilled water, 2 minute water pre-soak, water stop bath, TF4 fixer, etc. etc.

Developing times I'm using for 35mm are: Efke 50 12.5 minutes, FP4+ 8 minutes, Foma 200 7 minutes. All times are for 1:1:100 at 70 degrees F with first 30 seconds gentle agitation, followed by 1 gentle inversion per minute. Increasing the agitation to two inversions every 30 seconds does improve density by one stop, but is way to contrasty. My understanding is that these times are shorter than what is recommended.

The goal is to print with grade 3 filter on Ilford Multigrade using Aristo V54 cold light. This combo does measure grade 3 using a step wedge.

Right now I'm printing grade 2, but getting 2 stops reduction in film speed.

Thought about reducing dilutions and increasing time with minimal agitation, or reducing the amount of solution B, but I'm not sure if either will solve the dilemma.

Any suggestions from the Pyrocat gurus on how to decrease contrast and get only a one stop reduction in film speed?

Kevin.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

I have never used it in Glycol but I only ever got 1 stop reduction in speed and never excessive contrast. this is odd.

 

[noseoil]

KOG, back to square one here. Try cutting your dilution to 1:1:150 and stretching out times a bit, but if you don't do film tests first, you are just wasting your time. Start at box speed with minimal agitation and see what happens. Curious about the developer you used prior to pyrocat which didn't give too much contrast. tim

 

[KOG]

Tim,

I have been running film tests to check film speed. Although I don't have a densitometer, I do use a spotmeter like Phil Davis described in Beyond the Zone System 3rd Edition. Average EI is running about 2 stops less than box speed. This is backed up by the lack of shadow detail even when rating film speed at one stop below box speed.

Other developers I've used with these films are: D-76 1:1, Exactol Lux, 777,and Rodinal. From what I read Exactol Lux is similar to Pyrocat.

I know my experience runs contrary to other Pyrocat users, so that's part of my dilemma.

Kevin

 

[Jim Noel]

Have you checked the pH of your water source? If not using distilled to dilute the developer, there is a slight possibility of this causing a problem.
Your agitation method is also a likely culprit.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I agree with Tim and Jim that agitation is a likely culprit. With Efke 100, I use Pyrocat at the 1+1+100 dilution at 70 C with either semi-stand agitation or minimal agitation. I use a Stouffer step wedge and a densitometer - i find it difficult/impossible to evaluate densities of a Pyrocat neg by eyeball.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

1. Does it make a difference how you mix part A, part B, and water together? I always pour Part A into a graduate, then Part B into the same graduate, shake it up, and then finally dump it in water. Since it's glycol, I usually stir heavily with a plastic spoon to make sure it's mixed adequately.

2. How old is the developer? (i.e. did you mix yourself, or did you buy a kit?). Since the glycol is present, it should last a long time, but nothing lasts forever.

3. Have you tried a different batch of Pyrocat to see if you have a problem with the current batch.

4. Can you take a roll, cut it in half, develop them each in Pyrocat and one other developer, just to make sure it's the developer?

I've used both Pyrocat-HD and MC, and they've both worked great for me. Normal contrast, normal speed.

That's what I can think of in addition to previous suggestions.

- Thomas

 

[Kobin]

1. Does it make a difference how you mix part A, part B, and water together? I always pour Part A into a graduate, then Part B into the same graduate, shake it up, and then finally dump it in water. Since it's glycol, I usually stir heavily with a plastic spoon to make sure it's mixed adequately.

- Thomas

Oh yeah, you don't want to mix A and B together until the very last; once the accelerator is added the reducers become oxidized very rapidly. A into the distilled water, stir, then add B and stir.

The only time I had contrast troubles with Procat HD was when I overexposed and overdeveloped the negs. I just couldn't burn through the highlights no matter what I did. I find that negatives that look a tad thin print better than dense ones-- I've gotten nice prints from negs so thin you had to look from an angle to see the image! Those were definitely underexposed, but they printed; the overexposed ones didn't.

That's my experience anyway.

K.