Pyrocat HD dilutions

[hblad120]

I've been using this developer recently at the 1:1:100 ratio with MF TriX film with fine results. However, I have noticed in a few posts that some people are using other ratios - 1:1.5...2:2...etc

What will these other ratios do to the look/feel of the neg after processing and for what purpose would I consider using them?

Can't seem to find any info on this but I know you APUGers will.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I've been using this developer recently at the 1:1:100 ratio with MF TriX film with fine results. However, I have noticed in a few posts that some people are using other ratios - 1:1.5...2:2...etc

What will these other ratios do to the look/feel of the neg after processing and for what purpose would I consider using them?

Can't seem to find any info on this but I know you APUGers will.

Try this APUG Thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Here is a Sandy King quote from the above thread:

You can use a variety of dilutions. I generally recommend 1:1:100 for silver papers and 2:2:100 for alternative printing but other dilutions may be better for specific purposes, for example 1.5:1:150 for stand development, 5:3:100 for very low contrast scenes with alternative processes, etc.

 

[noseoil]

Typically, I use 1:1:150 whenever possible, for minimal agitation. This tends to give very fine negatives with crisp edges and high acutance. tim

 

[George Collier]

To Noseoil - What is minimal agitation? (how much do you give it over how much time)?

 

[noseoil]

George, I do a full minute of gentle agitation, followed by 10 seconds every three minutes, until completion. This helps control high values, while shadow detail is full and vivid. Try it sometime and see what you think. These are the best films I've worked with so far. A pleasure to print. tim

 

[Alex Hawley]

To Noseoil - What is minimal agitation? (how much do you give it over how much time)?

One of the things that is confusing about all this is the terms themselves. It really helps to get everyone on the same page. Here's the definitions that Sandy outlined a couple years ago:

Minimal -- Agitation for one minute initially and then for ten seconds every two or three minutes thereafter.

Extreme Minimal -- Agitation for one minute initially and then for ten seconds two or three times thereafter.

Semi-Stand -- Agitation for one minute initially and then for ten seconds once about halfway through the development period.

Stand -- Agitating for one minute initially and then no more.

I have had good success lately using minimal and extreme minimal agitation. It opened up a whole new world for me.

 

[wilsonneal]

One of the things that is confusing about all this is the terms themselves. It really helps to get everyone on the same page. Here's the definitions that Sandy outlined a couple years ago:

Minimal -- Agitation for one minute initially and then for ten seconds every two or three minutes thereafter.

Extreme Minimal -- Agitation for one minute initially and then for ten seconds two or three times thereafter.

Semi-Stand -- Agitation for one minute initially and then for ten seconds once about halfway through the development period.

Stand -- Agitating for one minute initially and then no more.

I have had good success lately using minimal and extreme minimal agitation. It opened up a whole new world for me.

When you're using agitation techniques like those above, are you in an open tray (and hand shuffling or using a slosher) or a deep tank? I take it these cannot work with a Uniroller.
Thanks
Neal

 

[Alex Hawley]

Neal,

For any of the stand development techniques to work, the film needs to be held in a vertical position. Some use tanks with hangers, others use a tube of some sort. I use an old Unicolor print processing drum. It has ribs molded into the side of its interior, plus some divider baffles. I can process two 4x5 sheets or one 8x10 sheet at a time with it. I've also processed roll film using standard roll film tanks and reels.

I have heard a few reports of people being able to make stand development work in a horizontal tray, one sheet at a time. However, the majority concensus is that the film needs to be vertical. No one is sure what the difference is in the development mechanism, but vertical works all the time.

 

[AlanC]

Noel,
Solutions stronger than 1:1:100 shorten dev. times. This was why I switched to 2:2:100, and it brought my time for 35mm TriX, taken in sunny conditions, down to 10 minutes.
At the time I thought that life was too short to spend more than 10 minutes developing a film. But since I switched back to Rodinal for 35mm TriX - because I prefer the gritty grainy look- I have changed over to what Alex Hawley has just described as extreme minimal agitation, and now develop for 25 minutes!
Alan Clark

 

[wilsonneal]

Neal,

For any of the stand development techniques to work, the film needs to be held in a vertical position. Some use tanks with hangers, others use a tube of some sort. I use an old Unicolor print processing drum.

Thanks Alex. Okay, so I use Unicolor (and Beseler) tubes, too. Not clear on how people are using the tubes. At any point, is there the typical small amount of developer in the tube, and it's on the motor base? Or is the whole process with the tube on it's end and a full tube of developer? Also, how are you agitating? Do you remove the sheet from the tube or is there some other way to agitate? Sorry, just not at all familiar with this and it sounds very interesting for controlling contrast.

Thanks
Neal

 

[noseoil]

Neal, my method for minimal agitation is as follows. I roll the film into a tube shape with emulsion side in, then slide it into a tube (mine are ABS plastic sink drain line, or black welding rod tubes for 8x10). Water is filled as a pre-soak, the cap screwed on and lights come on to mix developer. I roll the tubes once or twice as I'm mixing, to make sure there are no air bubbles attached to the emulsion.

Lights out, then tubes are filled and rolled gently for a full minute on the counter or in the sink (4x5 film gets 240mm of 1:1:150, so tubes are almost completely filled, except for an air bubble in the cap). Lights on, tubes stand on end for three minutes, then 10 seconds of rolling again, with an end over end inversion to stand again. This continues until the timer chimes, then unscrew caps, drop into stop bath (just water for me) for a minute and roll to stop development (lights are out now). I have pre-measured fixer in between development cycles, add, cap, agitate and finish. I do the final wash out of the tube. tim

 

[juan]

I use a different method with 4x5 and 2x3 negatives. I cut 1 1/2" regular PVC tubes 5 1/2" long. I slip a fiberglas screen into the tube, then add one negative per tube. I can get six of these tubes horizontally into a plastic storage container purchased at Target. I add developer to completely cover the horizontal tubes and snap on the conatiner's cover. I agitate using EMA. This method allows me to develop a full Graphmatic of negatives at one time. It's easiest, of course, if all need the same development time. However, if you go to the trouble to keep up with which negative is which, you can simply remove the tubes individually and drop them into whatever you're using for stop bath.

In using this method, it's important to agitate vigorously or you will wind up with uneven development. That's the reason to put the cover on the storage container - it allows you to really slosh the developer around. You can also remove the cover, reach inside and roll the tubes around with your hand, but I've found no need to do this - simply rocking the container from side to side and front to back works.

The container I use is translucent, so I have to do this in the darkroom. Perhaps with a differnet container, one could develop with the lights on.
juan

 

[Claire Senft]

I have made much use of Pyrocat HD and now Pyrocat MC for developing 35mm Panf+ negatives. I use a variation of stand development. The neagatives that I am describing are aimed at printing on VC paper with a number 3 filter. Since all of these negatives have received low light latensification they are probaby somewhat overdeveloped for non-latensified negatives by 5-10% for printing on VC paper with a number 3 filter. This development assumes that the hightlight to shadow range is inrange 2.6-2.8 stops of difference. This is approximates a 1:1:250 dilution range. I use four different open tanks in the DARK. Presoak, developer, water stopbath, hardening fixer.
Firstly, presoak the film in tap water for 5 minutes. The developer is 1 liter of tap water with 4ml of Pyrocat A+3 grams of washing soda in place of Pyrocat B. I use the standard of a 70ºf developing temperture. I add or subtract 4% to the developing time for every degree F below or above 70ºF. I have had no problems when the temperture is inrange 65-75ºF. I have not tried it outside this range since I do have a thermostactic valve. I do not know how much capacity this developer has. I am using only 1 roll per liter of developer.
Secondly, I am using the reel on a lifting rod. I insert the rod into the developer and raise and lower it about 2 inches for one minute in gentle strokes up and down strokes with no twisting. The film is allowed to rest for 15 minutes. I then Lift the film from the developer and reverse the reel top to bottom and give another minute of agitation. (Although I have seen no evidence of bromide drag I have reversed the reels as a precaution. The reason I use a lifting rod is that I wish to manitain the same density level from the center of the reel to the extreme outside edge) I continue to allow the film to remain at rest until a total time of 36minutes has passed and then transfer the reel to the water for a stopping rinse and thence into the fixer.

Works for me.

 

[fhovie]

Developer is cheap - fill the tube or tank. Especially with 1:1:150 or less - you should have at least 500ml soup per 8x10 film (or one roll) - I use more like 1.25liter per 8x10 (one roll) film. The film must be completely immersed vertically for semi stand to work. For me - semi stand is about 30 minutes with an aggitation of 5 sec every five minutes. This works very well for tri-x at asa200.

 

[Alex Hawley]

Thanks Alex. Okay, so I use Unicolor (and Beseler) tubes, too. Not clear on how people are using the tubes. At any point, is there the typical small amount of developer in the tube, and it's on the motor base? Or is the whole process with the tube on it's end and a full tube of developer? Also, how are you agitating? Do you remove the sheet from the tube or is there some other way to agitate? Sorry, just not at all familiar with this and it sounds very interesting for controlling contrast.

Thanks
Neal

My Unicolor drum takes 2500 ml to fill. That's just shy of the brim to cover an 8x10. When developing 4x5, 2000 ml is sufficient. I could probably get away with a little less. But, when tray developing, I use 2500 ml anyway with over twice the amount of developer at 2:2:100.

I realized the other day I can do nearly everything with the sheet in the drum since it has a light-tight pouring spout. With lights out, I place the sheet(s) in the drum then attach the cap. Lights on. Then its filled with water for the presoak. Empty the water and replace with developer followed by the initial agitation.

Since development times are in the 45 minute -80 minute time frame with extreme minimal agitation, I usually peruse APUG between agitations. About five minutes before development end, I get into the darkroom, turn out the lights, and get my eyes somewhat dark adapted. Dump the developer on time, remove the sheet(s) and move them into the stop tray, which is water. Then I turn on the OC safelight and give the film a quick DBI inspection. If OK, over to the fix tray it goes. Lights on after thirty seconds in the fix.

Back into the drum for a rinse, then give it the hypo clear, again soaking and agitating in the drum. I end using the Ilford 5-10-20 wash sequence.

Since I'm only developing one or two sheets at a time, this method takes longer overall. However, I don't scratch negatives anymore (very important for the Efke films), I get better contrast control, and its less tedious than developing in trays. And I don't have to wait until I have 6-8 negs piled up for tray development or worry about segregating N, N-, and N+ negs for developing.

Its working very well for me.

 

[sanking]

Neal,

For any of the stand development techniques to work, the film needs to be held in a vertical position. Some use tanks with hangers, others use a tube of some sort. I use an old Unicolor print processing drum. It has ribs molded into the side of its interior, plus some divider baffles. I can process two 4x5 sheets or one 8x10 sheet at a time with it. I've also processed roll film using standard roll film tanks and reels.

I have heard a few reports of people being able to make stand development work in a horizontal tray, one sheet at a time. However, the majority concensus is that the film needs to be vertical. No one is sure what the difference is in the development mechanism, but vertical works all the time.

OK, I personally use the tubes in vertical orientation and that works great for me. However, I know a number of persons who are using extreme minimal agitation procedures in slosher type trays. In fact, I actually saw this done myself once, and later inspection of the negatives showed very even development.

Still, I believe development in PVC tubes, placed in a light-tight container, offers many advantages, not least of which is one can keep the lights on most of the time after the film goes into developer.

Sandy


Sandy

 

[Alex Hawley]

Right Sandy. That's why I qualified my response with "some have made it work in trays" or whatever I wrote. However, and its true in my case, best to start with vertical.

 

[wfwhitaker]

Is it PVC tube or ABS tube? I see both listed, but had thought that one or the other is not lightproof.

 

[sanking]

Is it PVC tube or ABS tube? I see both listed, but had thought that one or the other is not lightproof.

The ABS tubing is black and lightproof. This is what you would want for making BTZS type tubes where the tubes would be used with caps with the room lights on.

For minimal agitation, where you place film in the tubes, and then place the tubes in a separate lightproof container in vertical orientation, PVC tubing is better because it does not float, as does ABS plastic which has a specific gravity lower than water. PVC tubing is white, and not lightproof, so you must use them in the dark, either in a light proof container, or with the lights off.

Sandy

 

[wilsonneal]

My Unicolor drum takes 2500 ml to fill. ....

Alex, thanks. Understanding it all, except for the agitation part. What do you when it comes to time to agitate...if we tip the tube over to roll it, developer will slosh out of the cap. How is agitation happening? Thanks,
Neal