Pyro and FP4

philldresser · Oct 4, 2003

My Pyrocat-HD order arrived today from the US which is pretty good going - 8 days from order to delivery a few 1000 miles a way. I will mix up a batch later in the week and develop some shots next weekend using sandy's times as above.

Plus I have made the PYRO end caps for my BTZS tubes and now have 120ml capacity per 5x4 sheet

Phill

sanking · Oct 4, 2003

Phil,

Pretty fast service from Artcraft in the US to the UK. Artcraft is highly recommended in my book.

But, just wondering why you ordered from the US? None of the chemicals in the Pyrocat-HD formula are particulary hard to find on this side of the divide. Are there not any good suppliers of photographic chemicals in the UK?

Julian · Oct 5, 2003

sanking said:
Phil,
But, just wondering why you ordered from the US? None of the chemicals in the Pyrocat-HD formula are particulary hard to find on this side of the divide. Are there not any good suppliers of photographic chemicals in the UK?

Silverprint in London, www.silverprint.co.uk is very good. They also stock Barry Thorntons DiXactol, I don't seemuch mention of it but it is a developer I like www.barrythornton.co.uk

Julian · Oct 5, 2003

[ They also stock Barry Thorntons DiXactol, I don't seemuch mention of it but it is a developer I like www.barrythornton.co.uk[/quote]

sorry that should have been Dead Link Removed

philldresser · Dec 1, 2003

I have finally managed to use my Pyrocat-HD on a couple of 4x5 images tonight. I developed 2 and I am reasonably pleased with the results. Both shots were reasonable long exposures (22 secs and 50 secs) on FP4. Images seem to have a fair contrast (Black background is clear) but the negs are pink when wet not brown as expected. Have I mixed wrong? There is no streaking evident and 85ml of solution used in BTZS tubes.

Phill

philldresser · Dec 2, 2003

I checked this morning and the negs have dried a light pinky tan colour.
My subject was some White Lilies. tungsten lit with a black background. As expected the black background is almost clear and very pink yet the flowers are various shades of tan/pinky grey. Can any of you Pyrocat users can you confirm if this is normal? I will be printing these on Thursday and I guess this will highlight any major problems.

Phill

Francesco · Dec 2, 2003

Hi Phil. I have never had a pinkish cast or stain on any of my negatives developed in Pyrocat HD (about 70 sheets of 8x10) in both 2:2:100 and 1:1:100 dilutions. I too use BTZS tubes.

philldresser · Dec 2, 2003

Francesco
What tint/colour is your base after dev in Pyrocat-HD? My film was FP4
Phill

Francesco · Dec 2, 2003

With FP4 I got a brownish tint to the negative. Same with Efke PL100 and Classic 200.

Donald Miller · Dec 2, 2003

Phill,

I have not had a pink stain with FP4. It almost sounds to me as if the pink stain is possibly some of the antihalation coating that has not been removed in process. Do you presoak your film prior to developer?

I assume that you are using the Pyrocat at 1-1-100 dilution. Did you purchase the Pyrocat as a kit or did you mix your own chemicals? I don't know about Francesco but I mix my own chemicals that may be another difference in our procedures.

Depending on the intensity of the pink stain, it may have the effect of slightly increasing contrast on your negatives.

Ole · Dec 2, 2003

I get no obviously visible stain on my negatives, but it is very obvious when printing. Unfiltered on multigrade paper prints like grade 00, on graded paper the same negative is very, very hard - should be printed on grade 00, or lith-developed.

philldresser · Dec 2, 2003

Don

In my rush to get developing I did not presoak (old habits die hard) but I will redevelop the duplicate shots tonight and presoak to see if this makes the difference. I used 1-1-100 which was mixed from raw materials.

I wash my Negs in HCA which usually removes the Anti-halation layer after developing in the BTZS tubes. Is the presoak required to remove the AHL before 'pyroing' or just as a method of even developer distribution?

Phill

Francesco · Dec 2, 2003

Phil, I buy my kit from Lotus View Camera in Austria. They come in liquid form in very attractive plastic bottles. When mixed together with distilled water the working solution turns yellow (others have gotten a pink colour in their working solution). I presoak for 5 minutes and always use fresh fixer. The brownish stain is quite obvious.

sanking · Dec 2, 2003

The pink/magenta color has nothing to do with stain from the developer. It is the antihalation backing which has not been completely removed. This is something that one sees with certain films when using rotary processsing such as BTZS tubes or expert drums because the back of the film does not receive as much chemical movement as with other forms of development. The solution is to take the film out of the tube for fixing and you may need to extend the time in the fix.

I don't know how to explain FP4+. I have some boxes of this film that clear with no pink color at all with normal processing, and other boxes that keep the pink cast unless I fix for 2-3 times as long, and extend washing times as well. Obviously all FP4+ film is not alike at least in terms of the antihalation backing.

philldresser · Dec 2, 2003

Francesco said:
When mixed together with distilled water the working solution turns yellow (others have gotten a pink colour in their working solution). I presoak for 5 minutes and always use fresh fixer. The brownish stain is quite obvious.

Francesco, Sandy
I bought the raw materials from artcraftchemicals in US and mixed according to Sandys instructions. However when the 2 chems A+B are mixed in distilled water they are still clear with no noticable colour shift. Should I see a yellow tinge?

I am happy with the negs as they show good highliht detail and contrast and will print them tomorrow but just wanted to know what was normal with Pyrocat with other users. I get concerned when everyone speaks of the brown staining and I get pink. The fixer solution was fresh as was the HCA afterwards but I did not presoak the negs.

Phill

Donald Miller · Dec 2, 2003

philldresser said:
However when the 2 chems A+B are mixed in distilled water they are still clear with no noticable colour shift. Should I see a yellow tinge?

I am happy with the negs as they show good highliht detail and contrast and will print them tomorrow but just wanted to know what was normal with Pyrocat with other users. I get concerned when everyone speaks of the brown staining and I get pink. The fixer solution was fresh as was the HCA afterwards but I did not presoak the negs.

Phill

Phill,

I bought my chemicals from the same source. When the stock solutions are fresh I get basically no color in the tray solution. When they get a little age they will tend toward a pinkish/orange tan color in the tray. As film is developed the developer solution becomes more brown/black in my experience.

I did encounter a pink cast to a sheet of FP4 that I developed this morning. In that case the film was underexposed by a stop and one half and density was very thin. (I brush develop in tray). For the balance of the film that I developed at the same time the pink cast was not apparent. Pyrocat will give a very faint brownish stain to the low value densities (depending on silver density) and the stain effect becomes more pronounced as densities increase. However this almost needs to be measured by densitometer to fully appreciate the stain effect.

sanking · Dec 2, 2003

philldresser said:
Francesco said:

When mixed together with distilled water the working solution turns yellow (others have gotten a pink colour in their working solution). I presoak for 5 minutes and always use fresh fixer. The brownish stain is quite obvious.

Click to expand...

Francesco, Sandy
I bought the raw materials from artcraftchemicals in US and mixed according to Sandys instructions. However when the 2 chems A+B are mixed in distilled water they are still clear with no noticable colour shift. Should I see a yellow tinge?

Phil,

In my conditions I get a slight shift to an amber color when the A+B solutions are mixed with water. However, this may vary slightly according to age of solutions and alkalinity of water. If your negatives develop normally then your developer is ok, regardless of the color shift, or lack thereof.

Negatives developed in Pyrocat-HD will look either slighly brown in color, or sometimes almost neutral. However, the color pink is definitely not an artefact from either Pyrocat-HD or from any other staining developer. This is antihalation backing that has not been completely removed.

Sandy

philldresser · Dec 4, 2003

I developed my back up negs tonight with the following scenario
FP4+ presoaked in distilled water for 5 mins
developed in Pyrocat-HD 1:1:100 @20C for 13 mins (N+1) in BTZS tubes
stopbath 1min
fixed 5 mins
washed 25mins in running water.
The resulting negatives are superb. Lovely contrast and detail but the negs are definitely PINK. The presoak water was purple with dye and there is no sign of any dye left in the emulsion. I am happy with the negs but would like to know why I don't get the brown shift that you all enjoy.

Phill

Francesco · Dec 4, 2003

Hi Phil, well done! Amazing detail n'est-ce pas and a certain "glow" in the neg. The brownish tint is hardly noticeable using 1:1:100 dilution (my negs developed to this dilution do not show an obvious brown tint), perhaps even invisible to the naked eye. If you have a chance try the 2:2:100 (might I suggest 11 mins for N+1 using BTZS tubes) you should see a difference.

philldresser · Dec 4, 2003

[quote="dnmilikan]I bought my chemicals from the same source. When the stock solutions are fresh I get basically no color in the tray solution. When they get a little age they will tend toward a pinkish/orange tan color in the tray. As film is developed the developer solution becomes more brown/black in my experience.[/quote]
Don
Solution turned pink/tan after 1 hour in open air mixed 1:1:100

[quote="dnmilikan]I did encounter a pink cast to a sheet of FP4 that I developed this morning. In that case the film was underexposed by a stop and one half and density was very thin. (I brush develop in tray). For the balance of the film that I developed at the same time the pink cast was not apparent. Pyrocat will give a very faint brownish stain to the low value densities (depending on silver density) and the stain effect becomes more pronounced as densities increase. However this almost needs to be measured by densitometer to fully appreciate the stain effect.[/quote]

I think I need to try a more representitive subject matter as 70% of the neg is clear (black background). I will inspect the highlights undo my lupe now and see if I can see the stain better, and do some outside shots this weekend. Hopefully I can get to the darkroom nextweek to print.

Thanks to all who have taken time to respond

Phill

philldresser · Dec 4, 2003

Francesco said:
Hi Phil, well done! Amazing detail n'est-ce pas and a certain "glow" in the neg. The brownish tint is hardly noticeable using 1:1:100 dilution (my negs developed to this dilution do not show an obvious brown tint), perhaps even invisible to the naked eye. If you have a chance try the 2:2:100 (might I suggest 11 mins for N+1 using BTZS tubes) you should see a difference.

Francesco
I'll give the 2:2:100 a try soon. I must say that the sharpness is VERY apparent. I also want to try stand development in this soup too.

Cheers

Phill

philldresser · Dec 5, 2003

Just for reference sake, that second batch have dried more tan than pink. Most apparent when I compared the 2 together.

Pyro and FP4

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