pyro and fixing

reinierv · Feb 23, 2005

Hi

Pyro newbie question:

I'm using PMK and amaloco x-89 fixer. I wonder how long fixing is required. I keep the brown/yellow stain, also at the un-exposed edges of my Bergger BPF 200. Is that ok?

The neg's remain pretty soft (exposure is ok), as I'm used from normal devlopment of BPF200. Is the pyro stain more an uv-block than normal?

Reinier

reinierv · Feb 23, 2005

PS: I'm getting idiotic long exposure times, under 4 40W tubes I get something like 45minutes

Tom Duffy · Feb 23, 2005

PMk and BPF always seemed to be a really bad combination for me in terms of overall negative density, i.e., general stain. My switch to Pyrocat HD and Tri-x 320 allowed me to reduce my print times by 75%.

KenS · Feb 23, 2005

Pyro newbie question:

<I'm using PMK and amaloco x-89 fixer. I wonder how long fixing is required. I keep the brown/yellow stain, also at the un-exposed edges of my Bergger BPF 200. Is that ok?>

Reinier,

While not having user Bergger BPF 200 myself I have to wonder about the stain you are having on the non exposed edges. Are you putting the film back into the (used) developer before washing... as was originally suggested by Hutchings... or going straight into the wash?

Ken

gainer · Feb 23, 2005

reinierv said:
Hi

Pyro newbie question:

I'm using PMK and amaloco x-89 fixer. I wonder how long fixing is required. I keep the brown/yellow stain, also at the un-exposed edges of my Bergger BPF 200. Is that ok?

The neg's remain pretty soft (exposure is ok), as I'm used from normal devlopment of BPF200. Is the pyro stain more an uv-block than normal?

Reinier

Pyro stain produces higher printing than visual contrast on graded papers because it does have higher density for blue light. A high base stain will certainly increase printing time. If you did return the film to developer or other alkaline solution after fixing, don't do it again. This treatment has been found by many to increase base stain more than image stain.

noseoil · Feb 23, 2005

Any acidic stop or fixer will remove some of the stain from pyro negatives. This is why water for a stop bath and TF4 are popular with pyro processing. If your print times are that long, which type of process are you printing?

Since PMK induces general stain, along with image stain, you may be blocking a fair amount of U.V. with your film, but I'm not certain. The 200 doesn't build contrast very well. You might consider something more along the lines of Efke 100 and Pyrocat-hd. The stain from pyrocat is in the highlights, shadow values aren't affected like they are with the use of PMK.

reinierv · Feb 24, 2005

Well I didn't put it back in the developper afterwards. Didn't know that was needed. Can I still do that now, ofourse it will then be fresh developer. I'm a bit amazed how this works, when I fixed, extra development would be doing nothing, ain't that so. And after the developping I just wash and don't fix again?

I used water as stop bath and Amaloco X-89 as fixer.

According to some sources, PMK and BPF give good results for palladium printing.

Seeing these problems I guess I better turn to Ilford and use push processing (if needed) to get the 7 stops range required for palladium...

noseoil · Feb 24, 2005

Reinier, Gordon at one time had people putting their film back into the spent developer to increase stain, but this just increased general stain (upping print times a bit) and did nothing for the printed image.

I still think you would be happier with Efke 100, Efke 25 or FP4+ as these films all tend to build contrast better than the BPF 200. The 200 is a good choice for a very contrasty subject with harsh lighting, but as soon as the light begins to flatten out your ability to expand development will expire, leaving your wait a dead print. I think you would be better served with a different film choice in this process.

gainer · Feb 24, 2005

noseoil said:
Any acidic stop or fixer will remove some of the stain from pyro negatives. This is why water for a stop bath and TF4 are popular with pyro processing. If your print times are that long, which type of process are you printing?

Since PMK induces general stain, along with image stain, you may be blocking a fair amount of U.V. with your film, but I'm not certain. The 200 doesn't build contrast very well. You might consider something more along the lines of Efke 100 and Pyrocat-hd. The stain from pyrocat is in the highlights, shadow values aren't affected like they are with the use of PMK.

You'd have to prove that to me. Bleach out the silver from a negative developed in Pyrocat HD, using a ferricyanide bleach, not Clorox. You'll still be able to print the whole negative on a grade 4 paper. Maybe you are talking about visible stain. The base stain can also be different because of the different silver fogging tendencies of pyrogallol and pyrocatechin.

GeorgesGiralt · Feb 24, 2005

noseoil said:
Any acidic stop or fixer will remove some of the stain from pyro negatives. This is why water for a stop bath and TF4 are popular with pyro processing. If your print times are that long, which type of process are you printing?
.........................

Hi !
I used to process my first negs in PMK using my normal process (2% acetic acid stop, followed by Ilford's Hypam rapid fixed at film strengh ) and got very good results. (I use the Ilford washing sequence, 5 water change in 5 minutes wash total) One day, a PMK "Guru" yelled at me because I was not in an "all alkaline process". So I switched to water stop and TF4 alkaline fixer. I'm TOTALLY unable to tell which neg get which process. And my UV densitometer also can't.... So I think this is marketing hype to sell the TF4 and such alkaline fixers near gold prices...
I've, since, to stress Phototechniques articles stating that one can do better without PMK tried Xtol 1+1 to 1+3 side by side with PMK on roll film (120) for Foma, HP5+ and Efke and put my PMK bottles in their closet.... Won't be out soon ;-)
Oh, BTW I've an unopened PMK kit form Photographers Formulary to sell ...
Have a nice day !

Kirk Keyes · Feb 24, 2005

GeorgesGiralt said:
One day, a PMK "Guru" yelled at me because I was not in an "all alkaline process". So I switched to water stop and TF4 alkaline fixer. I'm TOTALLY unable to tell which neg get which process. And my UV densitometer also can't.... So I think this is marketing hype to sell the TF4 and such alkaline fixers near gold prices...

Georges, I've done the same test, and I've found the same results as you (in visible wavelengths, at least).

It is hype.

Kirk - www.keyesphoto.com

glennfromwy · Feb 26, 2005

I break all the "rules" with PMK. No pricey fixers, no afterbath, etc. Still get nice negatives. I use PMK because it is very cheap and keeps forever. To me the rest is hype.

pyro and fixing

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