Pushing tri-x 400

[mountainmanF2]

Ive been wanting to learn how to push tri-x 400 to 1600 or 3200. My standard developer is sprint systems black and white film developer diluted 1:2. If someone could please explain how to do it with the developer i have or do i need a different type? Which method of developing is the best? Any help is highly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Nuff]

I would not push it beyond 1600. For 3200 and higher I use Delta 3200. I recommend Xtol, DDX, Tmax developers for pushing, just look at the instructions on the bottle or packet. You can also try HC110 to push up to 1600, but I don't have personal experience.

 

[miha]

Sprint is diluted 1:4. for TX pushed 2 stops you need 17 mins. See their chart: letter O for TX, 10 mins standard time, +2 push reads 17 mins on the letters chart (=letter S) at 68F/20C.

 

[markbarendt]

The directions may help;

http://sprintsystems.com/products/standard-film-developer/

http://sprintsystems.com/time-charts/

http://sprintsystems.com/filmchartexp.htm

Pushing or "plus" development is simply a matter developing the negative image more. Typically you just add more time as suggested in the directions. Warmer developer does the same thing, as does agitating constantly instead of agitating every minute or so. You can use any combination of these controls but it is much less confusing to apply one change at a time.

What's normally not understood by people starting down this path is that adjusting development is about adjusting the look of the paper print, not about making the film more sensitive to light. Reducing exposure, from the box rating of 400 to 800, 1600, or 3200 reduces the detail available in the shadows. Push development does not "fix" that.

Adjusting film development (push, pull, normal) is used to set up for the paper print, exposure adjustments (400, 800, 1600, 3200) are used to get enough shadow detail on the film; the two are actually completely separate things/decisions. You may find that you like "3200" development when shooting at 1600, or vice versa; you just have to test it for yourself. Personally I almost never adjust development regardless of how I set exposure.

You probably noticed that I said "paper print" a couple times. The reason I stressed that is that pushing (adjusting film development away from normal) is totally irrelevant unless the next step is defined.

If the next step target is an enlarger with fixed contrast grade 2 paper in it, then sure, adjusting development matters a lot. If the next step is an enlarger with variable contrast paper in it, then it matters a lot less. If the next step scanning it is doubtful that it is necessary and may even be detrimental.

 

[Colin Corneau]

I would not push it beyond 1600. For 3200 and higher I use Delta 3200. I recommend Xtol, DDX, Tmax developers for pushing, just look at the instructions on the bottle or packet. You can also try HC110 to push up to 1600, but I don't have personal experience.

This is good advice, what I would have said.

I personally have the most experience with DD-X developer but it's personal taste for the most part -- any of these developers are well designed to push black and white film.

 

[Roger Cole]

I would not push it beyond 1600. For 3200 and higher I use Delta 3200. I recommend Xtol, DDX, Tmax developers for pushing, just look at the instructions on the bottle or packet. You can also try HC110 to push up to 1600, but I don't have personal experience.

I agree.

I used to shoot it at 1600 all the time for development in Diafine. Over the years the changes in Tri-X seem to have made that not as effective as it used to be. 1600 is still quite usable in daylight (say, overcast days) but most of the time when you need that speed it isn't daylight but tungsten and under tungsten or mixed light I get something more like 1000 out of Diafine. But if 1000 will do it, you can't really beat Diafine for pushing Tri-X to that speed. It's a good match.

For conventional development you have some other good advice. Delta 3200 is a superb film. I, and many others, have found that I prefer the results from developing per Ilford's recommendations for one stop faster - that is, shoot it at 1600 and develop per instructions for 3200, shoot at 3200 and develop per 6400 etc. For that matter I also find this true with Kodak's recommendations for pushing Tri-X and TMY. The recommendations seemed to be targeted toward minimizing grain increase. I prefer best tonality and let the grain do what it will.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Read the section on push processing in the given document. Remember when you push film you lose shadow detail and there is no magical developer that can bring this information back. Kodak states that Tri-X can be pushed 1 stop without loss of quality and 2 stops if one can tolerate some loss. Anything beyond 2 stops is definitely not recommended. In general pushing is NOT recommended unless there is some pressing need, say very low light levels.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f4017.pdf

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I get good results with TX400 at EI1000 in Acufine, 5'25" at 68F (though my temperatures here in Hawai'i are more like 80F, where 3' is more like it).

 

[removed account4]

sprint film developer isn't diluted 1:2 or 1:4 ..
like all their stuff ( except for film strength speed fixer ) it is 1:9
i guess if you have a special application or you have devised your own times& temps maybe you can
dilute it any dilution you want but typically it like everything else they sell is 1:9 ( speed fixer or film is 2:8 )
they have charts about pushing have you read what sprint suggests the time to process your film for pushing it 2 stops ?
tri x is usually developed 10 mins 1:9 @ 68º push 2 stops is 21mins instead of 10 ...

good luck with whatever you choose to do !
john

 

[markbarendt]

Read the section on push processing in the given document. Remember when you push film you lose shadow detail and there is no magical developer that can bring this information back. Kodak states that Tri-X can be pushed 1 stop without loss of quality and 2 stops if one can tolerate some loss. Anything beyond 2 stops is definitely not recommended. In general pushing is NOT recommended unless there is some pressing need, say very low light levels.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f4017.pdf

Good points Gerald.

AMmountainmanF2, part of the reason that Kodak can suggest that there is no quality loss "at 800", without even an adjustment the developing, is that the ISO rating has a safety factor built in. Most people won't find a problem doing this but it is worth testing just as it is with shooting and developing at 3200. Play around some, find your limits.

 

[miha]

sprint film developer isn't diluted 1:2 or 1:4 ..
like all their stuff ( except for film strength speed fixer ) it is 1:9
i guess if you have a special application or you have devised your own times& temps maybe you can
dilute it any dilution you want but typically it like everything else they sell is 1:9 ( speed fixer or film is 2:8 )
they have charts about pushing have you read what sprint suggests the time to process your film for pushing it 2 stops ?
tri x is usually developed 10 mins 1:9 @ 68º push 2 stops is 21mins instead of 10 ...

good luck with whatever you choose to do !
john

1:9 indeed. But the chart says 17 mins (from O to S on the letter chart): http://sprintsystems.com/filmchartexp.htm

 

[removed account4]

1:9 indeed. But the chart says 17 mins (from O to S on the letter chart): http://sprintsystems.com/filmchartexp.htm

:eek:
dang, you are right! ( i gotta learn to read! )
my computer screen isn't big enough and i thought it started at 68º like the other chart, OOPS!
thanks for correcting me miha

 

[Athiril]

Pre-flashing works, you just have to pre-flash the right amount and have an extended developing time to stretch contrast. I read an article about it on Tri-X using at 6400 and getting shadow detail. I never tried it on Tri-X, I did it on C-41, but the principle is the same. Grain, shadow detail, contrast, colour (for colour film), detail all improve quite a bit using that method vs pushing on it's own.

It's something I'd recommend trying if you want to get as much speed out of the film - you do need to combine it with a strong push development though.

No Pre-Flash, Superia 800 @ 12800
Superia 800 @ 12800 no preflash by athiril, on Flickr

Pre-Flash, Superia 800 @ 12800 (from same roll and same development)
Superia 800 @ 12800 Zone 3 preflash by athiril, on Flickr