Pushing Tmax 100 in Rodinal help needed

With tomorrow being my off day i have decided to take my Speed Graphic out for a while and shoot some random sites around Chicago. With overcast skies and only Efke25 and Tmax100 in my freezer i think i will load some holders with Tmax and push it to 400. I have never intentionally push film before so im looking for advice on pushing the Tmax100 to 400 in Rodinal. I have read a post somewhere else stating to ad 25% to the developing time but i feel better asking advice here since Apug is the Bible of internet analog photography. I recently started using Rodinal at 1+25 with 2 inversions every 30 seconds at 68F and i have liked the results. Does anyone have times for pushing to 400 with rodinal at 1+25 or 1+50? Also is there any benefits of the 1+50 over 1+25 or would i just be saving developer? Thanks for your help!

Jim

Shoot a few sheets to be used to work out the actual development after you shoot the pictures you want !

"Pushing" is one of those old terms that means one thing, but describes another.

Back in the '50s - '80s we said we were pushing, say, Tri X, in order to get an otherwise impossible image. We used hot developers to build high contrast and ended up with an Exposure Index of 3 to 4 times the normal speed, and were content with losing 3 steps of shadows.

But there were some supple photographers who grasped that one could increase the development time to allow the shadows to build density, while greatly reducing the agitation to keep the highlights from becoming unprintable. There wasn't much published at the time because experts didn't believe that it was possible.

If you use the same agitation pattern you normally use with your TMX, your film might have very empty shadows and dense highlights. On the other hand, you should get some very acceptable results using 1+25 for 18 minutes with agitation reduced to 10 seconds every 5th minute (agitate at the start, the 5th, 10th, and 15th minute. You can safely begin with this time, and if the negative midtones are too dark, just increase the time until you get what you need. I haven't worked wih TMX in a few years, so I have to be vague with the actual time: the principle works, you just have to dial it in, there is no way to predict the result. Somewhere between 15 and 20 minutes.

You WILL lose a little shadow detail, but the midtones will be very good and the highlights will be quite printable. If you go with conventional agitation, try 9 minutes for EI 320 - 400, but remember that Rodinal builds very significant highlights with agitation every 30 seconds, and TMX can build very high contrast indeed !

Have fun, but don't forget to makes some shots simply to find the right development time !

df cardwell said:

Back in the '50s - '80s we said we were pushing, say, Tri X, in order to get an otherwise impossible image. We used hot developers to build high contrast and ended up with an Exposure Index of 3 to 4 times the normal speed, and were content with losing 3 steps of shadows.

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I was printing custom B&W for a lab in the mid-80's, and got constant requests from people to print their heavily "pushed" negatives with more shadow detail, when I was already printing everything that was there. My constant refrain was, "If you want me to print it that way, shoot it that way. I can't print what's not there."

TMX in Rodinal is about EI 50 - 80 for me with normal agitation. With extended development and less agitation I expect it would go back nearer "box speed" of about EI 100. Every stop over that will lose you some shadow detail. Don's advice is right on the mark. In flat light you might get away with quite a bit if you meter to place the midtones, or in incident mode. While you're at it, shoot some brackets of the same scene at EI 50, 100, 200, and 400 and learn from it.

Rodinal is very nice with TMX. It was the first developer that I found worked for me when TMX was first introduced, taming the highlights when I treated it a lot like Panatomic-X, with Rodinal at 1:100.

Lee

df cardwells advice is very sound. One method you can use, if you don't already, is to shoot both sides of a holder for one scene. That way, you can process the first, and make any adjustments to the second. With some subjects of course it's just not possible, but I always do this when I can. It's saved my bacon more than once, and totally worth it on a great set up.

Why push sheet film? Just shoot it at the normal speed you use. I shoot a lot of Tmax 100 in Rodinal, EI for me is 50, but that will vary depending on your meter, etc. Pushing is overdeveloping, and as DF-cardwell said it can get contrasty very bad if you're not careful.

Do you mean you want to give expansion development to increase contrast? Isn't pushing when you want to try to get more speed (higher EI) out of your film?

Andrew O'Neill said:

Do you mean you want to give expansion development to increase contrast? Isn't pushing when you want to try to get more speed (higher EI) out of your film?

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Its the same thing. expansion development increases contrast, and pushing uses expansion development. speed increases a bit with longer dev. time, but most of the 'effect' of pushing is from the higher midtone and highlight density, not increase in actual film speed (shadow density)

chriscrawfordphoto said:

Its the same thing. expansion development increases contrast, and pushing uses expansion development. speed increases a bit with longer dev. time, but most of the 'effect' of pushing is from the higher midtone and highlight density, not increase in actual film speed (shadow density)

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While pushing and developing for a higher speed are the same thing, developing for expansion generally assumes a more or less correct exposure for the film's true tested speed in a particular developer, so a push 2 and an N+2 are distinctly different things. Its a bit of a nitpick, but not too much for a Zoner.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to help me!! I took df's great advice and hope the results will be good. Again thank you! This forum is the best! Everyone here is so helpful and it's so great for a hobbyist like me to have access to such knowledge.

Thank You

Jim

Jim

If it works, its because of some old time shooters that passed it along.
If it doesn't... well, my fault.

Is there someplace to hide around here ?