Push processing old style emulsion film (Efke - ADOX)

Hi there,
I am experimenting on a project where I need to shoot in critical light conditions (night city scenes @f22-32, without going over 5s exposures). I am evaluating I will need to shoot at about 3200~6400 ISO.
I worked at high ISO before, and I absolutely hate the image flatness of T-grain films even at nominal ratings, so I shot some tests on HP5+ at 3200 developed in Rodinal, with discreet results and not too bad fog.
But I though I might try some high silver emulsions such as Efke 100 or ADOX CHS.
My assumption is that, even if their nominal rating is 100 ISO, these films are more responsive than others to development, given the higher "mass" of the silver grains and the absence of dyes. I guess I might even get more shadow details, which get lost very easily in push processing.
Another plus factor is that I can take advantage of methods such as hydrogen peroxide or acetic acid intensification to increase film speed (WHY IN THE WORLD, STEVE ANCHELL, DID YOU TAKE THAT CHAPTER OFF YOUR BOOK? Does anybody know about those processes?).
My main question is which developer to use. I love Rodinal and I always used it because I don't mind the grain and I actually like it.
My goal is not image sharpness, but a wide tonal range. Is there something else that can give me better results than Rodinal?
Thanks a lot,
gm

High silver content has NOTHING to do with image quality.
It is a myth that film and paper makes use to sell their items.

Efke 100 or ADOX CHS are the same films sold under different names.
I have used them both. If you want ANY shadow detail neither will work at EI 3200.

Fomapan 100 will responds well to the faint Green safelight discussed by STEVE ANCHELL. I get a TRUE film speed of about 250-320 with this method. I have tested it with a step tablet in the photo so I know I am really getting a true speed increase.

Try a high speed film like Tri-X if you will not use T grain films.
It is a better place to start if you are only going to go to a max of 5 second exposure.

If you can go with LONG exosures, like a few minutes then try Fuji Acros or Tmax 100.
They are faster then 400 speed films when used for very long exposures.

brianmquinn said:

Fomapan 100 will responds well to the faint Green safelight discussed by STEVE ANCHELL. I get a TRUE film speed of about 250-320 with this method. I have tested it with a step tablet in the photo so I know I am really getting a true speed increase.

Click to expand...

Thanks Brian.

Reciprocity is not a big concern under 5s (I lose max. 1/2 stop with most films). I read some more about hyper-sensitization and it seems to be meant mostly for improving reciprocity, so I don't think I should bother with all the equipment and testing.

Perborate latensification might not be as effective either, according to (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

I might try safelight latensification as you suggested, although it might get tricky to get the right light intensity for film exposed at 6400 ISO (beside the fact that I'm in the process of moving and I don't have a bullet-proof darkroom...) .

So I think it is most important to just focus on the film/developer choice for now. Actually I prefer ADOX over Efke because of some consistency issues I had with Efke emulsions in the past, and for the very clear polyester base used in the newer ADOX films.

gm

Efke/Adox 100 looks good at EI 200 in Acufine (stock), 68F, 4 min., agitate first 10 sec., then 5 sec every minute. I'm processing in deep tanks, so you might adjust the time if you use daylight tanks or Jobo.

Here are some scans from a few years ago (4x5), but it's still a combination I use, and it works just the same with 120. Haven't tried with 35mm.--

http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo/halloween/index.htm

Adox 100 at 3200? Don't bother.

I've never tried it but there was a dude on Pnet (largeish thread about his technique) that was getting some good results with extended development using HC110
I cant remember dilution but I believe he was using TriX possibly.
If I recall it wasn't a T grain film.

You could try searching over there and see what you think

Agree that a lot if silver doesn't magically increase sensitivity. If it did then old silver coins would form pictures on your pockets.

If you don't like the flat look of "normally processed" T-grain film And you really need superior sensitivity then I would suggest that you should look at alternative processing for the T-grains to give you the contrast you're seeking.

Right off the bat continuous agitation will drive the contrast up.

And a whole lot of folks really like the character of the Fuji T-grains of you just can't stand the super linearity of T-max.

For some reason Ilfords Delta 400 doesn't get the respect that I think think it deserves. You might try it too.

But in the end, as much as I like Efke 100, it isn't a low light film. Underexposed areas just turn out blank. No matter how much you over develop.

EFKE/Adox 100 is the ISO speed for Tungsten light, in daylight it's about a 2/3rds to a stop faster 160-200 EI, the same goes for the slower films.

These aren't old style films though quite the opposite they were the first if the modern thin coated emulsions. Being single emulsions they don't have the latitude of films from Ilford, Fuji and Kodak when it comes to push processing.

Ian

What's "critical" light ? Pushing like you propose is going to mean a huge sacrifice in tonal range and an increase in grain and contrast. Maybe consider shooting opened up some and on Fuji Acros, practically zero reciprocity failure and does great for lower light, if that's what "critical" means.

Or just shoot Delta 3200, which can give not too bad results at 3200 pushed two stops. If you haven't tried it, don't assume it looks anything like T-Max, just because it's a modern grained emulsion. It doesn't.

@Richard, for "critical" I mean shooting some slow moving subjects (3~8s) by street lights with an XL sized pinhole - f22~45 - and I can only do it with very fast film.
The reason I was looking at old-style emulsions is because I like how their grain looks like: it looks exactly like grain.
@David, thanks for the tip. I think I have never tried Delta 3200 in 15 years I have been shooting, so disappointed I was with T-Max.
I guess I can try to test some "stretched" HP5 or TX along with some Delta 3200.
As far as developer, what would anybody suggest beside Rodinal? Provided that grain is not an issue, it is actually desired.

brucemuir said:

I've never tried it but there was a dude on Pnet (largeish thread about his technique) that was getting some good results with extended development using HC110
I cant remember dilution but I believe he was using TriX possibly.
If I recall it wasn't a T grain film.

You could try searching over there and see what you think

Click to expand...

I think I found something here - http://www.digitaltruth.com/articles/pushing-tri-x.php

gattu marrudu said:

I guess I can try to test some "stretched" HP5 or TX along with some Delta 3200.
As far as developer, what would anybody suggest beside Rodinal? Provided that grain is not an issue, it is actually desired.

Click to expand...

if you want grain then give the Delta 3200 a good try, especially if you're pushing it hard. But read up on it and find the caveats about Ilford's incorrect development times. For 6400 develop to the 12800 time or get blank areas.

Delta 3200 is NOT Tmax 3200. It's very different. Still may not be what you want, but it certainly has a strong cult. Use it fresh. It spoils worse than slow speed film. Gets fogged from sitting around.

I use DD-X, but that keeps the grain in check. Of course it's still very apparent. But if it isn't enough for you then you might try good old D-76 or even Rodinal.