Purchasing a Poor-Man's Leica Soon

flavio81 · Jan 27, 2017

Visually Conscious said:
Besides the Canon Canonet QL17 GIII, I also heard the Olympus RC 35 is also good. I would also like to add the Rollei 35 series but I have a budget below $250 but might consider of just saving. I also noticed with the Canonet after using it constantly, day by day it start breaking down after a couple of months of wear and tear. In the end, should I wait to buy a Leica or do you have any recommendations of anything similar but durable.

We recently, had a thread about this, search for it. It is called something like "sub-$250 rangefinders or poor man leicas".

Here are my quick, one-liners for each of the famous cameras, at least the ones I do have an experience on:

Yashica Electro 35 GSN
- most need repair, repair is not difficult, and once done: beautiful lens, reliable AE, great viewfinder
Yashica Lynx (and similar)
- like an electro 35 but gives manual control. All those Yashica lenses are winners.
Rollei 35
- horrible ergonomics make it less usable than you would think. All lenses are sharp so don't pay more for the f2.8 lens. This is not a rangefinder camera.
Agfa rangefinders (ambi silette, silette, karat iv, etc)
- beautiful sharp lenses, viewfinders just ok, built construction inferior to german Kodaks but still good
Kodak Retina series (folding)
- compact, beautifully made, sharp lenses, but I feel lenses on Agfas give nicer rendering
Olympus 35RC
- great little camera
Olympus 35SP
- overrated. clunky loud shutter.
Olympus Trip 35
- very good P&S. This is not a rangefinder camera.
Olympus Pen S / Olympus Pen (original) / Olympus Pen W
- excellent half frame camera, much better alternative to the Rollei 35. This is not a rangefinder camera.
Minox 35
- much better than a Rollei 35 on actual usage, but there is a big question mark on their reliabiity nowadays. This is not a rangefinder camera.
Zeiss Contessa (folding)
- beautiful lens, quirky to operate, built like a jewel
Werra 3
- great camera

Also take a look at the Diax cameras!

flavio81 · Jan 27, 2017

Read through this thread:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

mynewcolour · Jan 27, 2017

flavio81 said:
Here are my quick, one-liners for each ...

What's the thinking behind including all the non-rangefinder cameras?

Do you consider those particularly suitable for use when/as you would a rangefinder camera?

flavio81 · Jan 27, 2017

mynewcolour said:
What's the thinking behind including all the non-rangefinder cameras?

Do you consider those particularly suitable for use when/as you would a rangefinder camera?

Scale focus cameras? I think i like them even more, because i'm a good guesstimator of distances. Also, they are small and usually have good focus scales (distances are well apart). EXCEPT the Rollei 35, whose scale is terrible.

If aperture is at f5.6 or smaller, then you can use them just fine. The rangefinders, though, can easily do sharp wide open shots at apertures like f1.7, something you can't do with scale focus cameras.

flavio81 · Jan 27, 2017

Forgot to mention,

From FSU cameras i've used the Zorki 4K, and it is relatively cumbersome to use. Also those cameras usually come with misaligned rangefinders. Film flatness and path is less than ideal, too. Changing shutter speeds is very slow.

If you want a fully interchangeable lens rangefinder that will get you close to leica Quality for the least money possible, then I think your answer is a Canon rangefinder.

TheRook · Jan 27, 2017

R.Gould said:
Just got another of the original Poor Mans Leica, an Agfs Ambi silette,working perfectly, for the princely sum of £49 GBP, I have a couple of then now, complete with the full set of lenses, that is 35,50,90 and 130mm, I guess I paid around £250GBP for the lot

The Agfa Ambi Silette is certainly a fine camera, however it neither resembles nor feels like any of the Leica models... why do you refer to it as a "Poor Mans Leica"? I don't understand.

flavio81 · Jan 28, 2017

TheRook said:
The Agfa Ambi Silette is certainly a fine camera, however it neither resembles nor feels like any of the Leica models... why do you refer to it as a "Poor Mans Leica"? I don't understand.

Because it is an interchangeable lens 35mm rangefinder. Plus with framelines for 35,50,80 lenses.

BMbikerider · Jan 28, 2017

My last interchangeable lens rangefinder was a Leica M3 and to be honest it was worn out so didn't keep it for very long. Before that I used a Kiev 1V which came with a 50mm 35mm and a 135mm bayonet lenses. This was a few years before and to be honest it was a stopgap until I could afford my 1st Nikon F2. The Nikon came and stopped with me, but I also ran the Kieve alongside it. I will go along with some issues about it being a 'bit' crude but I never had problem with the shutter where the problems were supposed to manifest themselves.

The 50 F2 lens was possibly the best prime 'standard lens I have ever used. I may have been lucky and got a good one but it was just exceedingly sharp. Far better at F4 - F5.6 - F8, than the Nikon F2 I was using at the same time.

I remember taking a shot over the River Thames that included the top of a monument some distance beyond the northern river bank. When enlarged up to about 12x16 (using a Nikon enlarging lens) each individual upright stave of the railings at the top of the monument were clearly distinct. The Film I know was Pan F 'cos that was what I only used at the time.

The Kiev cameras are not expensive, reasonably common, and the lenses not hard to find. Have it fully checked and it will serve you well.

mynewcolour · Jan 28, 2017

flavio81 said:
If aperture is at f5.6 or smaller, then you can use them just fine. The rangefinders, though, can easily do sharp wide open shots at apertures like f1.7, something you can't do with scale focus cameras.

Absolutely.

The OPer shoots at night a bit by the looks of things.

Go for a proper rangefinder with a good vf and patch.

mynewcolour · Jan 28, 2017

flavio81 said:
I think your answer is a Canon rangefinder.

:- ]

macfred · Jan 28, 2017

This is my poor-mans-leica - often overlooked and underrated : Konica III - Hexanon f/2 48mm

Konica IIIMFX - Rangefinder 1956 by Andreas, on Flickr

But I have to confess - I'm lurking around a Canon P for some times ...

R.Gould · Jan 28, 2017

flavio81 said:
Forgot to mention,

From FSU cameras i've used the Zorki 4K, and it is relatively cumbersome to use. Also those cameras usually come with misaligned rangefinders. Film flatness and path is less than ideal, too. Changing shutter speeds is very slow.

If you want a fully interchangeable lens rangefinder that will get you close to leica Quality for the least money possible, then I think your answer is a Canon rangefinder.

Canon rangefinder's are great, I have a Canon 7, lovely camera, but, at least over here, they go for at least as much as Barnack Leica's, so if you are going for a Canon rangefinder then I would say get a LTM leica,

flavio81 · Jan 28, 2017

BMbikerider said:
.

The 50 F2 lens was possibly the best prime 'standard lens I have ever used. I may have been lucky and got a good one but it was just exceedingly sharp. Far better at F4 - F5.6 - F8, than the Nikon F2 I wll.

Was it a Jupiter-8?
Which was your Nikon 50/2? The Nikkor-H or the ancient, rare Nikkor-S?

I'm curious because the Nikkor-H 50/2 (introduced 1964) is a truly excellent standard lens, worthy of the Canon name

Theo Sulphate · Jan 28, 2017

Another vote for the Ambi Silette as a "Poor Man's Leica":

https://www.cameraquest.com/agfambi.htm

TheToadMen · Jan 28, 2017

The only real alternative for a "real" Leica is a Texas Leica!

And how about a Bronica RF-645? Also a fine camera with a very clear rangefinder and excellent glass!

TheToadMen · Jan 28, 2017

macfred said:
This is my poor-mans-leica - often overlooked and underrated : Konica III - Hexanon f/2 48mm

I have one too and it is a beautiful camera indeed!

Visually Conscious · Jan 28, 2017

frank said:
Interested in a Rolleiflex Automat 2 instead?

Not at the moment sadly, I would like a rangefinder first

Visually Conscious · Jan 28, 2017

moto-uno said:
^And we're off !!! Start at $250 max and in a day we're up to $450 . Peter

haha I might as well at that point to save up for a Leica

ASA32 · Jan 29, 2017

If you want a Leica, save up enough to buy it. From reading this thread, I don't think you will be happy with anything else. Just my 2 cents.

Harry Stevens · Jan 29, 2017

Please hurry up and buy a rangefinder because we need to start the new Febuarys poor mans Leica thread.........

Trower · Jan 29, 2017

Leicas are nice, what model Leica are you lusting for?

A Yashica ye can be often had for 100 to 150, and they are very nice. Often said to be of nearly equal quality of the Leicas.

Ko.Fe. · Jan 29, 2017

Zorki with Industar lens. Better two Zorki and shutter cloth available on ebay from seller in Japan,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shutter-cur...hash=item464d9cb93d:m:mfBzVO-Et9salJm8lhbcgxg
plus 23$ for clams. http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-PCs-CTL-6...181641?hash=item1c64bcd6c9:g:qogAAOSwiylXB2jB
This is what I did and this site has instruction I use to make Zorki run like new.
http://jay.fedka.com/
No special skills are required. I did it with couple of Zorki and it helped me to move on and CLA family FED-2.

PS: Remarks above Rollei 35 ergonomics made me . I've had two, no problems with ergonomics at all, but taking lens in and out is similar with classic Leica and Zorki.

jeddy-3 · Jan 29, 2017

Helinophoto said:
Why not go for a 'Barnack' ?

The screw-mount Leica's are cheaper and the related optics can be cheaper to buy. In time, you can use all screw-mount lenses on the M's with the use of a simple adapter-ring.

^Agree

Before I saved and saved and bought a used MP I loved my 35 RC. Great camera- tiny QUIET (moreso than a Leica) , lightweight, super sharp lens. I like that it has a meter but can be operated without the meter.

I also love the Olympus XA3, amazing camera but not a rangefinder .

If I was on the search as I was two years ago from SLR to smaller rangefinder style camera I'd do exactly what the above poster stated and get a Leica III and a nice Russian lens or two. The Jupiter 8 50mm f/2 is cheap, fast, and produces very lovely images in my opinion. If you look on the auction site for both of those things you should be able to stay within your budget.

And if/when you get an M-body you can use any of the Russian or screw mount leica lenses, and will still have a nice old real Leica to sell or use, or look at.

OR, you could buy my black paint 35 RC, I dont use it anymore. I removed the chrome with reverse electroplating and panted it with black enamel paint. Its been well loved and used. I'll even throw in the battery adapter. As a "bonus" the rewind lever is missing so you get to rewind film like you would a Leica.

Visually Conscious · Jan 30, 2017

ASA32 said:
If you want a Leica, save up enough to buy it. From reading this thread, I don't think you will be happy with anything else. Just my 2 cents.

You're right, I just wanted to explore my options. A Leica is a huge investment.

Harry Stevens said:
Please hurry up and buy a rangefinder because we need to start the new Febuarys poor mans Leica thread.........

lmao sorrry if I add yet another annoying thread.

Trower said:
Leicas are nice, what model Leica are you lusting for?

A Yashica ye can be often had for 100 to 150, and they are very nice. Often said to be of nearly equal quality of the Leicas.

Either M2, M6, or even the M4-2 or Minolta cl/cle but each is $500 and up.

Visually Conscious · Jan 30, 2017

jeddy-3 said:
^Agree

Before I saved and saved and bought a used MP I loved my 35 RC. Great camera- tiny QUIET (moreso than a Leica) , lightweight, super sharp lens. I like that it has a meter but can be operated without the meter.

I also love the Olympus XA3, amazing camera but not a rangefinder .

If I was on the search as I was two years ago from SLR to smaller rangefinder style camera I'd do exactly what the above poster stated and get a Leica III and a nice Russian lens or two. The Jupiter 8 50mm f/2 is cheap, fast, and produces very lovely images in my opinion. If you look on the auction site for both of those things you should be able to stay within your budget.

And if/when you get an M-body you can use any of the Russian or screw mount leica lenses, and will still have a nice old real Leica to sell or use, or look at.

OR, you could buy my black paint 35 RC, I dont use it anymore. I removed the chrome with reverse electroplating and panted it with black enamel paint. Its been well loved and used. I'll even throw in the battery adapter. As a "bonus" the rewind lever is missing so you get to rewind film like you would a Leica.

Ironically I have the exact jupiter lens as well so I believe that might be a good plan but RC price?

Purchasing a Poor-Man's Leica Soon

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