Pulling Provia and velvia

anthonylg · Oct 3, 2016

Hi everyone,

I was wondering, did anyone here tried to pull process provia and/or velvia? I love the colors of these films but I would like to try to have something slightly softer in contrast. And actually, I don't mind to have slightly weaker blacks, it can give a painterly effect that I like. Like shooting provia at 40/50 and pulling one stop, or even pulling one stop and still shooting at 100 to have a darker et softer look.

So before to make some tests (which are always expensive in 120...), I wanted to know if people here had some experience with this kind of process and maybe some pictures to show?

Thanks!
Anthony

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 3, 2016

"Slightly softer contrast" for a film (RVP) that beats contrast to the max? Good luck with that. But there are some pokes to play with...

Giving Provia 100F a gentle pull or shove is fairly common practice, and Provia does not have the high contrast and narrow range of Velvia, so it will happily sail through most situations that it's bigger brother will scowl at. It's important to keep in mind that Velvia is not a universal film for all situations (as much as negative film can be and often is), this being the point that brings a great many users undone and onto the warpath with it. But the strife is not all Velvia's fault!

If you want to "slightly" enhance Velvia, tweak the ISO to EI40 or EI32. In either case, your exposure must be substantially reduced to preserve highlights while opening (only very marginally) shadows. I deal with Velvia by flattening spectrals (polarising) to assess highlights and shadows with a spot meter and then decide whether it should be lifted; it is not very common. I never bother P/P with Provia because it is a fine emulsion as it is (used for my pinhole work and a stand-in if I should somehow forget to pack RVP).

RVP50 / EI40 (no processing change), hazy-to-bright sun in amphitheatre.

anthonylg · Oct 3, 2016

Thanks for your thoughtful answer!

Actually I don't want to pull the film only to reduce contrast, but also to slightly change the texture of the picture. Ideally I would like the colors that offer Provia, with a more painterly texture, something that breaks a bit the extreme sensation of reality that we have with slide film. That's why I was asking about pulling. Of course there are other things, like working with older lenses or slightly move the tripod during the exposure etc...
I also remember some things Kubrick did for Barry Lyndon and Eyes Wide shut, pushing the film and shooting with a low contrast filter. It gave him rich colors but a soft texture. And a lot of grain, which I don't want, but we can't compare Provia to a 500 asa negative

Often, Velvia is too much for me. I love the colors but it's too contrasty, too sharp... I use it only when the light is very, very soft.

DREW WILEY · Oct 3, 2016

The current Provia doesn't pull very well, at least compared to the previous version. You can do it conservatively, perhaps to 1/2 stop, but the final look won't be much different. Too bad Astia is discontinued.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 3, 2016

anthonylg said:
Thanks for your thoughtful answer!

Actually I don't want to pull the film only to reduce contrast, but also to slightly change the texture of the picture. Ideally I would like the colors that offer Provia, with a more painterly texture, something that breaks a bit the extreme sensation of reality that we have with slide film. That's why I was asking about pulling. Of course there are other things, like working with older lenses or slightly move the tripod during the exposure etc...
I also remember some things Kubrick did for Barry Lyndon and Eyes Wide shut, pushing the film and shooting with a low contrast filter. It gave him rich colors but a soft texture. And a lot of grain, which I don't want, but we can't compare Provia to a 500 asa negative

Often, Velvia is too much for me. I love the colors but it's too contrasty, too sharp... I use it only when the light is very, very soft.

Have you thought about taking Rollei CR 200 for a test? This film is very, very clear in shadows and has moderate to very good highlight control. The downside is it is a quirky lomo-like film with a distinct light yellow tone and somewhat cold shadows. It is an aerial film — :Aviphot Chrome 200 PE1, for photography at altitude (balanced fine for daylight). The texture you are after might be found there.

__________

Often, Velvia is too much for me. I love the colors but it's too contrasty, too sharp... I use it only when the light is very, very soft.

Yes, those qualities were deliberate, despite wails from photographers wanting a more agreeable, lower-contrast emulsion, like Astia (long gone ). And soft light is exactly how it should be used — it revels in it. Sometimes in very flat, overcast light I light to make it look a bit like Reala (polarise, re-rate and shorten exposures), but it is a bit harder to uɐɔs and print this way.

By way of mention, I landed on Rollei CR 200 after exchanging a faulty 4 rolls of TMax 100 (another thread about this elsewhere on APUG is still chugging along...). I am still running test rolls of CR 200 slowly through my pinhole to guage its behaviour in many different lighting situations (bright Spring sun, overcast, shade, early morning, evening/dusk, etc.). Very flat, wet overcast conditions (such as right now!!) are next in line. When the floods subside...

anthonylg · Oct 3, 2016

Oh yes, I miss Astia too! What a great film that was...

Velvia is surprising for that. I always trust my eyes when it comes to photography but with Velvia it is different. Sometimes a scene will seem too flat and dull when you look at it, but will completely reveal itself with Velvia.

I really like CR200! It is a beautiful film. Only too grainy for me, and this yellow cast can be too much as well. But I really like it and I am generally happy with everything Rollei does

Alan Klein · Oct 3, 2016

Velvia 50 contrast and often blocked shadows are what makes it pop. Add the high color and sharpness and you have what made it popular for so many years.

anthonylg · Oct 4, 2016

Yes, Velvia is a beautiful film and many people love it for its colors, I do too. But I also see that a lot of photographers who would love to have Astia back

Alan Klein · Oct 4, 2016

I'd like to have my youth back. Alas, it's gone the way of Astia! Guess I'll have to stick with Velvia and be thankful I'm still around to use it.

anthonylg · Oct 4, 2016

You're right And hopefully Provia and Velvia will still be here for a long time!

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 4, 2016

anthonylg said:
You're right And hopefully Provia and Velvia will still be here for a long time!

A common wish...

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 4, 2016

anthonylg said:
Yes, Velvia is a beautiful film and many people love it for its colors, I do too. But I also see that a lot of photographers who would love to have Astia back

Astia was the first film I picked up before overseas travel to Norfolk Island (in the South Pacific) in 1993. The (mounted) slides still look good after all that time. I hadn't yet cottoned-on to Velvia at that early time. My chief recollection of Astia was the visible grain at even moderate enlargement, nicely balanced greens and blues, subdued reds and very good detail in shadows. Depending on the light, it was very reminiscent of Kodachrome. These are not the given 'must-have' characteristics of its stormtrooping big brother, Velvia, so it is something everybody has to get used to (for those that don't the complaints about Velvia will keep coming). Astia isn't coming back. At all. And Alan Klein's youth has also gone. Kaput.

anthonylg · Oct 4, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
Astia was the first film I picked up before overseas travel to Norfolk Island (in the South Pacific) in 1993. The (mounted) slides still look good after all that time. I hadn't yet cottoned-on to Velvia at that early time. My chief recollection of Astia was the visible grain at even moderate enlargement, nicely balanced greens and blues, subdued reds and very good detail in shadows. Depending on the light, it was very reminiscent of Kodachrome. These are not the given 'must-have' characteristics of its stormtrooping big brother, Velvia, so it is something everybody has to get used to (for those that don't the complaints about Velvia will keep coming). Astia isn't coming back. At all. And Alan Klein's youth has also gone. Kaput.

Haha, youth is still here, in our memories! Well, I'm still young, but I already see some moments with a distance I did not see coming...

I might try to use Provia and Velvia with older lenses, that are a bit less contrasty than the ones of the RB67. It might be a way...

Also Poisson Du Jour, do you know Aaron Rose? He mostly uses pinhole cameras and I love his work

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 4, 2016

anthonylg said:
[...]

Also Poisson Du Jour, do you know Aaron Rose? He mostly uses pinhole cameras and I love his work

I communicate and go nature-walkabout with two Aarons, but neither by the surname of Rose.
Pinholing is a reasonably big thing in Australia, if only "exponents" would stop sharpening images until they look like they were shot with a LF Schneider-Kreuznach Super Angle Iron lens...

anthonylg · Oct 4, 2016

So I invite you to discover him and his work! Only one book with his pictures was published, it's called "photographs". He worked almost secretly for more than 35 years, making and printing pictures every days. He has a fantastic way to approch photography, deeply connected to Light, in a very philosphical way.

You can see some pictures from the book here: http://www.photoeye.com/bookstore/citation.cfm?catalog=AB231&i=&i2=
And discover him quickly there: http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4641975.Aaron_Rose

anthonylg · Oct 5, 2016

Thanks for the picture Wu Zixu! Well, its really hard to judge a picture made with a Lubitel... Even if it's not that sharp I like the muted look. But it's difficult to say what comes from the pull process or from the Lubitel lens, especially that I don't know this camera

Pulling Provia and velvia

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