pull push film

jeremy rundle · Aug 26, 2016

Ok I am happy to rate HP5 higher when needed, but I was wondering

Instead of keeping 200 and 400 asa film would you "pull" film from 400 to 200 or USE 200, is the a reason why that would actually notice in the final print

jeffreyg · Aug 26, 2016

After testing for my personal ISO, I find that box speed and following Ilford's recommendations work just fine. For the most part you should be able to make a good print from a one stop difference either way. I have adopted the "when all else fails, follow the directions" system.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

jeremy rundle · Aug 26, 2016

thank you

MartinP · Aug 26, 2016

Changing development time only changes the contrast of the film. If the subject is more or less contrasty then use less or more development, with appropriate changes to exposure if necessary.

Look at the manufacturers data-sheets and technical papers for estimations of 'how much' and 'what happens next'.

markbarendt · Aug 26, 2016

I regularly shoot HP5 at anywhere from 100 to 800 without adjusting film development.

What does change is how I print. With an enlarger one simply adjusts the print expose to compensate. Scanned stuff similarly just takes a bit of adjustment to print.

Paul Howell · Aug 26, 2016

Pushing and pulling film has several different meanings and uses. Pushing usually means underexposing and over developing to shoot is dim light or to increase the shutter speed in good light to stop the action while keeping the aperture wide open to blur the background. If you have tested for personal IE or ISO and find that shooting HP5 gives you details and the shadows at box speed and you decide to push to 800 then you need to make adjustment to the development time. If on the other hand if you find that 800 or 200 is the speed that gives you shadow detail without blocked highlights then that is not a push or a pull, it is your normal speed for your camera and developer combo. So if personal ISO is 200 and you shoot at 400 that is a push. If you your personal ISO is 800 and you shoot at 800 not a push. If your personal ISO is 800 and you shoot at 400 that is a pull. When pushing film the old saying was to expose for the highlights and let the shadows fall where they may. The more you push a film more you compress the shadows. Pulling was done for a number of reasons. One is that you are shooting a very low contrast scene and you want to increase the contrast, you over expose the film then under develop so as not block any highlights, if any. If you only want to increase contrast by 1 zone you may need to just add development time. The other reason I can think is that back in the day you might be using a high speed film like Trix but have camera with slow shutter speeds and were shooting in very bright light so you pull the ISO and underdeveloped. In the 60s I shot a lot of TriX and GAF 500, my first 35mm was a Kodak Retina C, top shutter speed 1/500th, there were times I wanted to shoot wide open but the scene was outdoor mid day, I had to pull the ISO to 200 and decrease the development time to compensate. Once I got a Spotmatic with a top shutter speed of 1/1000 I did not need to pull. Ansell Adams used the terms expansion and contraction when discussing pushing and pulling film to control contrast.

Logan Becker · Sep 4, 2017

Paul Howell said:
Pushing and pulling film has several different meanings and uses. Pushing usually means underexposing and over developing to shoot is dim light or to increase the shutter speed in good light to stop the action while keeping the aperture wide open to blur the background. If you have tested for personal IE or ISO and find that shooting HP5 gives you details and the shadows at box speed and you decide to push to 800 then you need to make adjustment to the development time. If on the other hand if you find that 800 or 200 is the speed that gives you shadow detail without blocked highlights then that is not a push or a pull, it is your normal speed for your camera and developer combo. So if personal ISO is 200 and you shoot at 400 that is a push. If you your personal ISO is 800 and you shoot at 800 not a push. If your personal ISO is 800 and you shoot at 400 that is a pull. When pushing film the old saying was to expose for the highlights and let the shadows fall where they may. The more you push a film more you compress the shadows. Pulling was done for a number of reasons. One is that you are shooting a very low contrast scene and you want to increase the contrast, you over expose the film then under develop so as not block any highlights, if any. If you only want to increase contrast by 1 zone you may need to just add development time. The other reason I can think is that back in the day you might be using a high speed film like Trix but have camera with slow shutter speeds and were shooting in very bright light so you pull the ISO and underdeveloped. In the 60s I shot a lot of TriX and GAF 500, my first 35mm was a Kodak Retina C, top shutter speed 1/500th, there were times I wanted to shoot wide open but the scene was outdoor mid day, I had to pull the ISO to 200 and decrease the development time to compensate. Once I got a Spotmatic with a top shutter speed of 1/1000 I did not need to pull. Ansell Adams used the terms expansion and contraction when discussing pushing and pulling film to control contrast.

Thanks Paul! Very nice elaboration, I'm more likely to start applying 1-2 stop differences now that I have a comprehensive understanding of what's involved in pushing and pulling.

Photo Engineer · Sep 4, 2017

Pushing does not increase speed, it increases contrast. Pulling decreases contrast. A film has a fixed speed and all we have as a tool is contrast. This changes density and gives the appearance of changing speed.

PE

M Carter · Sep 5, 2017

I'm a Rodinal fan, so when I shoot HP5+, it's usually at 200 or 320 - then I get the shadow detail I want. Development time or dilution is based on running tests.

Same with FP4 and Acros in Rodinal - I tend to give those guys an extra half stop. But you can suss out a given film & dev combo in an afternoon and one roll of 35 - optimal ISO, dev times for pushing, and dilution differences with compensating devs. I find that info carries through to 120.

For faster B&W work, I much prefer HP5+ at 1200 or so in DD-X - DD-X is pretty impressive in this regard, and HP5 gives me a nicer tonal range and massively better grain structure than Delta, even Delta in DD-X.

All that to say, it's really a personal thing you should base on testing, and your testing should carry through to your final output vs. just eyeballing the negs.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 5, 2017

Pushing film results in loss of shadow detail. No amount of increased develoment can bring back that which is not there.

pull push film

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