pt/pd question

[dc1215]

So I'm just starting to experiment with pt/pd printing. I've read as much as I could find, and made a handful of prints that I'm pretty happy with. The process is phenomenal, its been so relaxing and fun to experiment and start the learning curve of printing all over again.

I want to start printing with the Na2 method, and so in preparation I made a few prints that are 100% palladium, developed in an ammonium citrate developer. They came out pretty good I think, but I'm not too excited at all about the deep brown color that I got. My previous prints had been 75% pd and 25% pt (give or take) and I was really happy with that tone. It was warm, but not this deep brown that I'm getting now. Is there any way to cool a full palladium print down a little bit more? The developer was around room temperature, should I try to print with it being colder? Does anybody tone palladium prints?

I tried to scan an example, but my photoshop skills are seriously lacking and I can't even come close to getting the color of the print right so it would have been worthless.

Thanks in advance for replies.

-Dan

 

[Vaughn]

I believe the Na2 will do that for you...or at least get you back close to your original pd/pt mixture look.

 

[Monophoto]

The Na2 solution is platinum. And you can always use ammonium citrate as your developer to get colder tones.

 

[clay]

Humidity of your print during exposure is also a factor in the color of your print tone. Try making sure your coated paper has a 50% RH or so for exposure, and make sure you expose it fully.

One of the downsides of Na2 is that it pretty well locks you in to using pure palladium. The dichromate-in-the-developer method of contrast control does not have this limitation, and will allow you to use a mix of platinum metal in your coating solution.

If you are looking for very neutral to cold prints, you can also gold tone a pt/pd print. Again, this assumes you won't be using Na2. But I have gotten some blue-black tones using the gold toning procedure outlined on the Bostick and Sullivan web page.:

http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/techart.php

The Na2 solution is platinum. And you can always use ammonium citrate as your developer to get colder tones.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Something else to experiment with for cooling down pure pd prints is selenium toning. I've done it, it works, I can't speak to the long-term effects thereof, and it seems to kill the selenium bath VERY quickly, even when done at high concentrations (stronger than 5:1 dilution... at typical silver-gelatin printing strengths (10:1- 16:1), you'll get one, maybe two prints and then it will take 30 or more minutes per print to see any tonal shift at all). Something to experiment with if you like.

 

[dc1215]

Thanks for the suggestions. I know that the Na2 is platinum, but I wasn't really sure how much it would affect print color, assuming that I'm using very little of it, and pretty dilute drops. I should be receiving it in the next day or two so I guess we'll see what happens after that.

I think I read somewhere or someone once mentioned to me that adding a drop of gold to my coating solution would also cool down print color. It seems to make sense, but has anyone else heard this or experimented with it? It is still possible if I switch to Na2?

 

[nze]

You could gold toned your palladium print but it may turn really cold. Ziatype will be a good choice as it turn to be neutral black tone. You may warm it a little.
I will give try to selenium toning to see how it work with my palladium print, seems to be intersting to try.

 

[clay]

When I have gold toned pure palladium prints, I end up with a reddish color that can best be described as mahogany. Odd looking, to be sure. I found that I need at least 20% pt in the mix to get the cooler black tones when I plan on gold toning. It could be my water or lab conditions, of course.

Christian, didn't you do a lot of ziatype work with gold added into the coating mix at one time? I remember seeing some of them on the web that were pretty cool looking.

You could gold toned your palladium print but it may turn really cold. Ziatype will be a good choice as it turn to be neutral black tone. You may warm it a little.
I will give try to selenium toning to see how it work with my palladium print, seems to be intersting to try.

 

[nze]

Clay
Yes I do a lot of gold pâlladium ziatype. and in fact just a drop of 5% gold chloride and even a drop of 1% will turn the tone to a cold black. More than than will turn the tone in real blue to pinky tone.
but if you can control humidity ziatype can be a puzzling process . even more when there is gold in it as the same mix give a different tone depending of the humidity.It may seems hard to control but it's easy with some experience.

 

[Deckled Edge]

Something else to experiment with for cooling down pure pd prints is selenium toning. I've done it, it works, I can't speak to the long-term effects thereof, and it seems to kill the selenium bath VERY quickly, even when done at high concentrations (stronger than 5:1 dilution... at typical silver-gelatin printing strengths (10:1- 16:1), you'll get one, maybe two prints and then it will take 30 or more minutes per print to see any tonal shift at all). Something to experiment with if you like.

Interesting that this works for you, as I had read that you can't go back UP the periodic table. This is, the nobler the metal, the more it cancels out the less noble metals. As Selenium is above both Pt and Pd, it should not work. Obviously it does, but, as you say, at a cost.

 

[michael9793]

I always put a drop or two of pt in my mix to keep the print somewhat cooler, but the more you use the developer with some pt in your mix the more your developer will get cooler. I just keep adding to my developer. I never use new devloper only to up the volume

mike a

 

[Ole]

Interesting that this works for you, as I had read that you can't go back UP the periodic table. This is, the nobler the metal, the more it cancels out the less noble metals. As Selenium is above both Pt and Pd, it should not work. Obviously it does, but, as you say, at a cost.

That's - just not correct. It's even incorrect enough to be a serious misunderstanding of the periodic system...

Palladium selenide exists, and is stable enough to be found in nature: http://webmineral.com/data/Palladseite.shtml

Yes, in other words it's quite possible that selenium toning a palladium print might work, although the stability of metallic palladium would imply that you need a very high selenium concentration to get it to work - and possibly high temperatures as well. You might also try adding a little oxidiser to the solution, a few drops of 10% hydrogen peroxide can sometimes speed up things considerably.

I haven't tried this myself, these are purely theoretical speculations. So if someone does try it, use a discard - and don't blame me if it doesn't work!