Provia 100F really dark - lab issue?

calico · May 27, 2022

I received a couple of rolls of 120 Provia 100F back from my lab which are really dark.

I find it hard to believe I was so off on my exposures. All frames on two rolls very dark. I've been shooting Provia for many years, and I'm never that off on exposures (and I'm totally aware you don't have as much wiggle room with transparency film as with negative film).

I used handheld meter and Hassy. It's not the meter or the camera. B&W rolls were fine.

I'm wondering.....is there a mistake that would be easy to make when developing transparency film that would make it look underexposed? Like the developer being wrong temperature?

This lab just started developing E6 recently. I have gotten some E6 rolls back from them in other orders that were fine, though.

The film was old, from about 2012, but had been in my freezer. And the rolls that turned out fine in previous orders were from same time period.

Thanks.

Photomultiplier · May 27, 2022

A simple way to roughly determine if the processing was ok is the density of the orange film marking (RDPIII FUJI etc) in the rebate. If you have properly processed films of the same old batch (the latent image of the marking can possibly fade over the years)
you can compare the brightness of those markings.

destroya · May 28, 2022

Artist-Photographer said:
Provia 100F keeps reasonably well frozen, but not over a period of more than 5-6 years. It will lose 1 to 1.5 stops of effective speed when deep frozen for an extended period (it is a slower process with Velvia 50)........

wow, I must have super provia then, as my 10+ year expired frozen provia looks as good as new. Not sure I believe your statement, speaking from my own experience with frozen film

dmtnkl · May 28, 2022

Artist-Photographer said:
Provia 100F keeps reasonably well frozen, but not over a period of more than 5-6 years. It will lose 1 to 1.5 stops of effective speed when deep frozen for an extended period (it is a slower process with Velvia 50).

Frozen Provia 100F stays in excellent shape for a lot longer than 5-6 years.

The same holds for all fujichrome produced within the last 20 years actually. I have repeatedly shot at box speed frozen fujichrome that expired 10-15 years ago with excellent results (even 400 iso derivatives).

Nitroplait · May 28, 2022

Photomultiplier said:
A simple way to roughly determine if the processing was ok is the density of the orange film marking (RDPIII FUJI etc) in the rebate. If you have properly processed films of the same old batch (the latent image of the marking can possibly fade over the years)
you can compare the brightness of those markings.

+1
Since you have other recently processed rolls processed with comparable age, the edge printing should give you a good indicator if you or your lab is to the culprit.

calico · May 28, 2022

Photomultiplier said:
A simple way to roughly determine if the processing was ok is the density of the orange film marking (RDPIII FUJI etc) in the rebate.

Thanks, Photomultiplier and also Nitroplait who said same thing.

Here is photo of recent dark roll (right) and previously developed normal-looking roll (left), both developed by same lab. The edge numbers are completely different colors. I looked at a number of previously-developed rolls, from other labs, and they all have the yellow edge numbers.

I assume the reddish edge numbers on the dark roll mean it was developed improperly.

I'm pretty sure both of these rolls were long-expired film.

I don't know what the "CAGEBG-AEFD" is in the edge of dark roll. Don't see it on other rolls I looked at today.

I'm really upset. The two dark rolls I just got were last photos of my cat who died in April. Maybe I can salvage in Photoshop.

I think I will just look for another lab. I had another problem with this lab a while back. Seems hard to find reliable labs these days. Any suggestions welcome. I like to have darkroom contact sheets made of b&w film, but it's nearly impossible to find a lab that will do that. So just a lab that can be trusted for developing. East coast of US preferable but I would consider anywhere in US.

MultiFormat Shooter · May 28, 2022

calico said:
I think I will just look for another lab. I had another problem with this lab a while back. Seems hard to find reliable labs these days. Any suggestions welcome. I like to have darkroom contact sheets made of b&w film, but it's nearly impossible to find a lab that will do that. So just a lab that can be trusted for developing. East coast of US preferable but I would consider anywhere in US.

In the eastern US, I would recommend Praus Productions. He does good work, and makes optical contact sheets in both B&W and color.

calico · May 28, 2022

dmtnkl said:
Frozen Provia 100F stays in excellent shape for a lot longer than 5-6 years.

The same holds for all fujichrome produced within the last 20 years actually. I have repeatedly shot at box speed frozen fujichrome that expired 10-15 years ago with excellent results (even 400 iso derivatives).

That has been my experience, too.

calico · May 28, 2022

MultiFormat Shooter said:
In the eastern US, I would recommend Praus Productions. He does good work, and makes optical contact sheets in both B&W and color.

Thanks. Used them many years ago with mixed results, but worth trying again. Had forgotten about them.

dmtnkl · May 28, 2022

You can also try developing yourself. The only real challenge is the management of the chemistry and keeping it in good shape once the original bottles have been opened, i.e. preventing oxidation. But now this issue is easier than before since Tetenal reintroduced the smaller 1L kit some time ago. For 35mm it is even easier since you can use small 250ml tanks with the Tetenal Magic Box kit for just 3 35m rolls.

I was also disappointed with local labs and decided to take full responsibility of developing my film. I have never been happier with the results.

calico · May 28, 2022

dmtnkl said:
You can also try developing yourself. The only real challenge is the management of the chemistry and keeping it in good shape once the original bottles have been opened, i.e. preventing oxidation. But now this issue is easier than before since Tetenal reintroduced the smaller 1L kit some time ago. For 35mm it is even easier since you can use small 250ml tanks with the Tetenal Magic Box kit for just 3 35m rolls.

I was also disappointed with local labs and decided to take full responsibility of developing my film. I have never been happier with the results.

I agree, I should develop film myself, especially the b&w. I did this ages ago. But I don't have a dark room now, need to learn how to use a changing bag, re-learn how to load film onto reels, etc. Just haven't had time yet.

Also, I wouldn't have the contact sheets which are useful for determining which images worth scanning.

But it will probably only get harder to have good work done at labs.

MattKing · May 28, 2022

I'll repeat myself from previous threads.
The best thing you can do for a lab is bring problems to their attention. Good labs respond in good ways, and tell you more about the lab than a few unremarkable results of acceptable quality.

calico · May 28, 2022

MattKing said:
I'll repeat myself from previous threads.
The best thing you can do for a lab is bring problems to their attention. Good labs respond in good ways, and tell you more about the lab than a few unremarkable results of acceptable quality.

I probably will contact lab and show what happened. But this is second time they messed up. The last time -- where a number of rolls were fogged and images were unfixable in Photoshop -- I spent a lot of time testing my film backs and cameras because they claimed there was no way it was their fault. Then it turned out it was their fault. Lab owner very apologetic, so I stuck with them. But now these two rolls messed up. I do understand other labs could mess up, too, so changing labs is a gamble. But I have a two-strikes-and-you're-out feeling here.

calico · May 29, 2022

MultiFormat Shooter said:
In the eastern US, I would recommend Praus Productions. He does good work, and makes optical contact sheets in both B&W and color.

Do you use Praus for b&w?

MultiFormat Shooter · May 30, 2022

calico said:
Do you use Praus for b&w?

I have, in the past, and I was happy with the results. Recently, I have using them for optical color enlargements, which have been great. If you have any reservations, you could talk to Edgar Praus, personally. He has always been "great," on the phone.

calico · May 30, 2022

MultiFormat Shooter said:
I have, in the past, and I was happy with the results. Recently, I have using them for optical color enlargements, which have been great. If you have any reservations, you could talk to Edgar Praus, personally. He has always been "great," on the phone.

Thanks so much for your input.

Many years ago, some b&w 120 I sent came back very dusty. But that was such a long time ago.....maybe just carelessness of an employee who is long gone.

calico · Jun 1, 2022

Update: Lab owner took responsibility for faulty processing of the Provia and refunded the processing cost. So that's good, at least.

Thanks, everyone, for your input.

Provia 100F really dark - lab issue?

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