Provenance of Rollei Vintage printing papers

otto.f · Dec 21, 2024

{Moderator note: this thread started as a response to a post in a thread on Adox MCC paper, which can be found here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/adox-mcc.210446/}
Since Rollei has brought out an astounding good fiber based paper which is almost the same as AGFA's MCC Classic, also in exposure and development times, I think that ADOX cannot compete anymore, especially when there are obstructions in their production process

Renato Tonelli · Dec 21, 2024

otto.f said:
Since Rollei has brought out astounding good fiber based paper which almost the same as AGFA's MCC Classic, also in exposure and development times, I think that ADOX cannot compete anymore, especially when there are obstructions in the production process

Interesting. I wouldn’t mind trying it out but haven’t seen it offered by US vendors.

Who makes the Rollei paper - Ilford, Foma? Is it a formulation by Rollei or a repackaging of an existing paper?

I was (am) a big fan of the Adox paper and have a really large stash of it that I am planning to start using in 2025. Yes, it can be frustrating from batch-to-batch.

Valerie · Dec 21, 2024

Renato Tonelli said:
Interesting. I wouldn’t mind trying it out but haven’t seen it offered by US vendors.

Who makes the Rollei paper - Ilford, Foma? Is it a formulation by Rollei or a repackaging of an existing paper?

I was (am) a big fan of the Adox paper and have a really large stash of it that I am planning to start using in 2025. Yes, it can be frustrating from batch-to-batch.

Rollei Vintage FB 112 - Rollei

www.rolleianalog.com

And ideal for lith printing, according to their website.
Freestyle is their US seller, but the paper doesn't show up on the Freestyle website.

logan2z · Dec 21, 2024

Renato Tonelli said:
Who makes the Rollei paper - Ilford, Foma? Is it a formulation by Rollei or a repackaging of an existing paper?

I've read that it's a repackaging of Foma paper. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the subject will confirm or deny.

koraks · Dec 21, 2024

logan2z said:
I've read that it's a repackaging of Foma paper. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the subject will confirm or deny.

That doesn't add up as far as I can tell:

neutral to warm black on a pure white base

extremely short exposure and development times

ideal for lith development

'The' Foma paper that's ideal for lith development is Fomatone MG. This is a very warm-tone emulsion on a warm-colored base, and it's about 2 stops slower than Fomabrom.
Fomabrom is a neutral-tone emulsion on a clear white base and exposes fairly quickly, but it's not very suitable for lith.
The only remaining candidate then would be Foma Retrobrom, but this is a fixed grade paper.

So it's not a paper that Foma sells and that's simply relabeled for Rollei.
I expect that the paper is not made by Foma at all, but instead is manufactured by Harman, just like the Rollei RPX 100 and 400 films.

halfaman · Dec 21, 2024

koraks said:
The only remaining candidate then would be Foma Retrobrom, but this is a fixed grade paper.

Retrobrom is yelow tinted with a lith development. Very yelow.

miha · Dec 22, 2024

Rollei Vintage FB = Fomabrom Variant.

koraks · Dec 22, 2024

miha said:
Rollei Vintage FB = Fomabrom Variant.

If that's the case, I'm surprised they label it as 'ideal for lith development'. But maybe the paper has changed in the time since I last tried to lith it. Back when I did, I got a fairly strong peppercorn effect, coarse tonality and not much color.

miha · Dec 22, 2024

MACO's product descriptions often don't match the actual properties of their products causing confusion for customers.

koraks · Dec 22, 2024

The lith-ability is mentioned also by Rollei itself on their website. But IDK if maybe Hans O Mahn/Maco has a stake or even full ownership of Rollei, similar to the Impex/Adox situation.

Klaus_H · Dec 22, 2024

Please don't forget that MACO's marketing department is very creative. Whoever markets “AGFA AVIPAN 200” as “Rollei Infrared”, “Rollei Superpan 200” and “Rollei Retro 400” should also have no problem combining the characteristics “white carrier” (FOMA PE), “neutral to warm black image tone” (FOMA FB VC) and “lithable” (FOMATONE) into a new description of a photographic paper (FOMA FB VC marketed as “Rollei Vintage 111 FB”).
Apart from the adventurous data sheets, MACO supplies excellent products for the the most part.

relistan · Dec 22, 2024

koraks said:
The lith-ability is mentioned also by Rollei itself on their website. But IDK if maybe Hans O Mahn/Maco has a stake or even full ownership of Rollei, similar to the Impex/Adox situation.

Yeah, they do. Maco bought the Rollei name years back and it’s used as their house brand.

koraks · Dec 22, 2024

Ah yeah, I thought I remembered something along those lines. Well, makes good sense then that the product information is consistent between both sources.

thefizz · Jan 2, 2025

miha said:
Rollei Vintage FB = Fomabrom Variant.

My understanding was that Rollei Vintage FB was re-packed Fomatone MG Classic. I have used both and they lith print the same.

koraks · Jan 2, 2025

thefizz said:
My understanding was that Rollei Vintage FB was re-packed Fomatone MG Classic. I have used both and they lith print the same.

See earlier comments; it doesn't quite add up since Fomatone MG Classic has a base that is most definitely not pure white. It's very decidedly 'warm'/tan.

thefizz · Jan 2, 2025

koraks said:
See earlier comments; it doesn't quite add up since Fomatone MG Classic has a base that is most definitely not pure white. It's very decidedly 'warm'/tan.

Yes but so is Rollei Vintage.

thefizz · Jan 2, 2025

Just to clarify, I wasn’t making any reference to MCC, just the two papers I mentioned being the same.

koraks · Jan 2, 2025

thefizz said:
Yes but so is Rollei Vintage.

I see, so they take a lot of liberty with this description of the base on the product page:

a pure white base

It's also odd that they mention "extremely short" exposure times. Save for Adox Lupex, Fomatone is probably the slowest B&W printing paper that's still being manufactured.

thefizz · Jan 2, 2025

koraks said:
I see, so they take a lot of liberty with this description of the base on the product page:

It's also odd that they mention "extremely short" exposure times. Save for Adox Lupex, Fomatone is probably the slowest B&W printing paper that's still being manufactured.

Sorry I should have mentioned I was referring to Vintage 131 & 132 which were the same as Fomatone MG Classic. It's confusing if they are calling their 111 and 112 papers Vintage also, as they are the Foma Variant versions which are base white.

koraks · Jan 2, 2025

Oh, gotcha; I missed that! I see!

miha · Jan 3, 2025

@thefizz there was also Rollei Vintage 123 paper, which was repackaged Fomabrom Variant IV 128 paper (now discontinued). An advantage of the Rollei version was that it came in black plastic boxes.

koraks · Jan 3, 2025

I've split off the Rollei-related posts from the original ADOX-focused thread to restore its original focus. It seems there's sufficient interest in the Rollei question to warrant its own thread.

Which reminds me that Rollei used to market up to a few years ago a warm-tone RC paper. I really liked it, except that it was eerily thin and tended to warp fairly easily. But I very much enjoyed printing on it. I've never found anything like it, since. I assume it must have been a Harman-manufactured product.

Provenance of Rollei Vintage printing papers

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