PROTAR 63CM lens ???

Dan Fromm

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Ryan McIntosh said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PROTAR-63CM-1-2...ryZ30076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't know much about Protar lenses, so could someone tell me why this lens is selling for so much? Whats so special about it?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Well, its long and has enormous coverage. And I b'lieve it is a triple covertible. And its in a shutter. Just what you want for your gigantic camera. Rare, too.

Also, it seems to have sparked a bidding war between several residents of the PRC, land of pollution, poverty, human rights abuses, and crazy bidders on eBay.
 
OP
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Yeah, I saw it was a rather long lens, in a rather small shutter. I did not know it was also convertible.

Sheesh.
 

Ole

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I can't find my green book with all the old lenses in it, but...

I believe this is a "convertible", and that the front cell alone is 63cm f:21. I think the whole lens is a 300mm f:12.5 - but I'm not going to bid on it to find out!
 

bart Nadeau

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Looking at the 1926 Zeiss catalog, I think it is 21cm for the combination with a speed of 1:6.3. I have a similar set, slightly later s/n 306xxx, but the elements are labeled for the individual parts - 35cm and 29cm are sequentially serial numbered and all of the information appears on both elements of the lens. This combination is 1:7. Mine is mounted in a #3 Alphax - about the same size as the Ilex. Note in the one for sale that there in no info on the front of the back cell - perhaps this lens was sold as just a relatively fast quality 5 x7 lens. If 6.3 is the speed of the combination, then the two elements would both be 29cm in length. The serial number dates it to 1918 so who knows what they were doing except starving?
By 1926 the longest single element in the catalog was 69cm at 1:12.5 and the next smallest was 59cm also at 1:12.5. I've never seen one of these big babies, but they must have been huge. The catalog shows them fitting in a a Compound XII - the biggest one shown.
 

jacobus

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Puzzling, indeed.
First this lens/shutter combination: The lens number indicates 1919 or 1920 as its year of production. Could this shutter ( an Ilex #3 ) be from the same time? AFAIK Zeiss mounted its Protars in German-made shutters - in Compurs or Compounds by Deckel.
Second, how come that such a strange beast of a lens went unnoticed by major authors of photographic books of that time? I am pretty sure that I have not seen a 1:21 Protar series listed in the Zeiss literature collected at Deutsches Museum library.
Third, what should have been the purpose to build a Protar that is almost two stops slower than the common kind ( 1: 12.5 Protarlinsen series VII, VIIa), and still approx.1/3 stop slower than wide angle Protars (1:18) ?
I am not certain whether all Zeiss Protars had a patent number engraved on the lens mount , but the ones I owned had this reference engraved. Didn't Zeiss feel a need to distinguish such a special lens by getting an additional patent for it and by marking this visibly?
 

Ole

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I found my book. As I expected, there is no mention of this lens nor of anything resembling it. The WA Protar f:18 goes to 32cm focal lngth, and it's f:18 all the way. The Serie IV Doppelprotar has 50, 60 and 70cm f:12.5 as the longest cells, and the Serie VII Doppelprotar has 59 and 69cm.

So at least it was not in the offerings from Carl Zeiss Jena in 1910!
 

kirkfry

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My bet is that it is a 21 cm lens at f 6.3 and the bid is a mistake.
 

ongarine

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The only similar lenses I found on old catalogues that listed Zeiss lenses is on a Voigtlander catalogue of 1893 when they manufactured lenses under Zeiss patent.
Anastigmat , Series V, Ratio 1:18
n. 9 Diameter of lens 1 3/8 inch (3,49 cm) Equivalent focus 24 7/8 (63,1 cm)
Standard size plate 15x18 " Diameter of largest disk 45 5/8 with sliding stops
Price was $ 145.00.
Take note that Series V longest lenses had 90 degrees of coverage.
Could be that this one on auction is "youngest" and a special order lens that lost 2/3 of aperture mounted on a shutter.
The future owner will let know......
 

ongarine

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I made a mistake, sorry.
I saw carefully with a magnifier the photo of the lens and it is clearly signed as Protar 1:21 63 cm.
So no lost of aperture for the mounting on the shutter and IMO it is a special order lens 90% Series V mounted on a shutter.
 

Ole

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I agree - the Vade Mecum mentions special order Protar V's up to 1664mm! In this case,it seems a US order was passed on to Jena, and a special Protar was made for mounting in that particular shutter. It seems that only the Jena made ones were never marked "Series V"...
 

Ole

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ongarine said:
Bravo Ole you deserve some good Italian wine when in Verona!
Click to expand...

What an exellent idea - last time I was there, I went there with the primary goal of finding a bottle of "I Capitelli". Well worth the trip.

BTW, I just found a picture I took on that trip. I'll post it in the gallery
 

Hugo Zhang

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Did you guys see the selling price? $4,037! The same buyer has just grabbed another brass lens in barrel for $2,600. Well, it is a Voigtlander 24", f/18 lens. The buyer is a collector in China. Last few bidders for both lenses are from mainland China.
 

Jerevan

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That winner on this item has some seriously deep pockets! I looked at the buyers history and it's quite a few several thousand dollar items in there...
 

jacobus

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Correction:
Zeiss actually listed a 1:18 Wide Angle Protar of 63cm focal length in its "Preisschlüssel P 265" valid from February 1927; price for the lens was 425.- Reichsmark. So it wasn't a "cheapo" but an Apo Tessar of approx. the same f.l. then costed 650 RM, and for an Apo Planar of 59cm f.l. Zeiss even asked 900 RM.
 
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