Pros/Cons any merit in Selenium treatment when developing film?

harlequin · Apr 11, 2021

Dear Team,

Was reading a paper circa 1975 that was talking about archival photographic processes, using Selenium to prevent deterioration over time. I typically use Selenium toner on fiber based paper, however would there be any positive effect in doing so for film?

I shoot 4x5 and 8x10 Ilford materials.
Tray development low speed high quality

Any feedback on this would be appreciated, Times temps, hazards is it worth it in a bid to preserve and protect negatives long term, does it even work on film?

Cheers!

Harlequin

AnselMortensen · Apr 12, 2021

There has been discussion about using selenium toner as an intensifier for underexposed or underdeveloped negs, as well as for permanence.
It's a somewhat controversial subject.
I've tried it as an intensifier with very little, if any, success.

Alan9940 · Apr 12, 2021

Selenium toner can be used to provide a slight increase in negative contrast, but this is done later after the film is processed. I've never heard of adding it to the developer to enhance longevity. Good processing technique and through washing will keep your negatives pristine for many years.

MattKing · Apr 12, 2021

Selenium toner has been used in the past by some to protect longevity but, as Alan indicates, good processing technique and thorough washing and regular testing of that washing is a better approach.
Selenium toning won't extend the life of the substrate, and it may change slightly both the contrast of your negatives and the response of variable contrast papers to those negatives (due to the change in the negative's image colour.

Bronson Dugnutt · Apr 12, 2021

Silver complexes with many other elements. Mostly sulphur but also selenium et al.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver(I)_selenide

Vaughn · Apr 12, 2021

I have selenium-toned sheet film. It can give around a half-grade additional contrast, but works best on an already well-exposed/developed negative that just needs a small boost. A thin negative (not much developed silver on it) will not see as much change. I have bleached negatives, washed, then selenium toned them for additional contrast.

There are other possibilities -- sepia toning will also provide greater permanence, although I have not tried it and do not know if there is a significant contrast change.

koraks · Apr 12, 2021

Vaughn said:
There are other possibilities -- sepia toning will also provide greater permanence, although I have not tried it and do not know if there is a significant contrast change.

I've done this a lot on glass plates (collodion negatives). It gives a considerable contrast boost in that case; several grades. It seems a little less effective on film, but still works. It will also be quite permanent.

Vaughn · Apr 12, 2021

From that, I am thinking that the silver content of the emulsion of glass plates is higher than for film...and I might expect selenium having a greater effect on collodion negatives than film.

Sepia toning 8x10 or 11x14 film negatives would be a possible experiment if I wish to stink up the place someday. Or sepia toning, then selenium toning. By taking the bleaching of negatives to different levels of completion, one would change the way the film would tone. How would split-toning a negative (changing the negative's color based on tonality) affect the response curve with multi-grade paper or with UV processes? One could really mess things up! (in a good way?)

Doremus Scudder · Apr 12, 2021

From the above you can extrapolate that selenium toning your negatives will a) give you a bit more contrast, which seems to be dependent on the amount of developed-out silver present in the emulsion (i.e., proportional intensification) and b) it will protect your negatives a bit from environmental contaminants, especially sulfur.

If you are just trying to make negatives with a high degree of permanence, thorough fixing and washing are your best friends. Toning will add a bit more protection but won't compensate for poor process and comes with a boost in contrast, which may or may not be desirable.

Best,

Doremus

DREW WILEY · Apr 12, 2021

No reason to do selenium treatment unless you are trying to slightly enhance the contrast. Others already stated the gist of the issue - proper fixing and washing. I'd add thoughtful storage conditions. Lots of antique negatives suffered from exhausted fixer, poor water quality, polluted urban atmospheric conditions heavy in sulfur dioxide, often horrible storage conditions and acidic paper liners too. Still, I've been paid well to print some horrible old negatives prior to modern digital restoration techniques. But those kind of problems have never occurred with my own negs.

I do gently use selenium, gold chloride, and liver of sulfur toners for prints, but primarily for sake of nuanced print tone itself. It actually takes a lot of toning, clear to a rather heavy look that I don't personally want, before there's a significant archival advantage to it.

Pros/Cons any merit in Selenium treatment when developing film?

harlequin

AnselMortensen

Alan9940

MattKing

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Bronson Dugnutt

Vaughn

koraks

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Vaughn

Doremus Scudder

DREW WILEY

Pros/Cons any merit in Selenium treatment when developing film?

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