Proposed UK law to restrict roadside camping

Campervans have become a nuisance in the UK during the pandemic because while they have latterly been free to travel the campsites have been closed until recently. So around beauty spots campervans commandeer laybys and free parking spots in National Parks, and they stay, and stay, and stay, and they stop other people having a day out because there is nowhere left to park. Not that some of the campervans would use a campsite anyway, but it has become a fashion to dominate public parking areas. I appreciate any new law may appear draconian, but the OP needs to have a word with the people selfishly spoiling the countryside for everybody else, especially as getting out of the city has for some been a component of their mental health during Covid. Here in the Peak District campervans are a blight, and it's not like if you find a parking spot next to one you want to stay very long, they spread themselves out around the van and there is no limiting what they do behind the nearest stone wall instead of in their porta potty.

Sirius Glass said:

But not necessary. Keep it up and the thread will end up in the Soap Box or closed. Get back on topic, please.

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Sorry, topic is too political for discussion.

Camper vans can come to jersey, but must park on one campsite, where they must stay for the duration of your stay. locals are allowed to park on a campsite but only on the one site, There has been a big campaign here for locals who like camper vans to be allowed to park and sleep over night in one or 2 coastal carparks at weekends, mainly surfer spots, for surfers and locals who simply enjoy this, but because of a noisy , and frankly dirty messy very few it is banned, you can own one and if local drive it around, within certain size limits, IE the old VW camper van size but using them for what they are meant for is a huge no no, with our local honary police fining people large sums, if taken to court fines can be up to a grand.
Richard

I would say OP sounds very responsible and respectful of the environment. In my opinion there should be some sort of license or some such to show that you are aware of the countryside and its rules so that one can have more freedom than others; dogs off leashes, thinking you can just go anywhere, mountain biking on footpaths, lighting fires, inability to wait for horses or cows, using roads as race tracks etc.. just so many idiots. Even had people complain to me that there on sheep on the road...

250swb said:

Campervans have become a nuisance in the UK during the pandemic because while they have latterly been free to travel the campsites have been closed until recently. So around beauty spots campervans commandeer laybys and free parking spots in National Parks, and they stay, and stay, and stay, and they stop other people having a day out because there is nowhere left to park. Not that some of the campervans would use a campsite anyway, but it has become a fashion to dominate public parking areas. I appreciate any new law may appear draconian, but the OP needs to have a word with the people selfishly spoiling the countryside for everybody else, especially as getting out of the city has for some been a component of their mental health during Covid. Here in the Peak District campervans are a blight, and it's not like if you find a parking spot next to one you want to stay very long, they spread themselves out around the van and there is no limiting what they do behind the nearest stone wall instead of in their porta potty.

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120% agree. You will find the greater number of these camper vans are hired for a couple of weeks and those that drive them do not understand the protocol of using them. Not only that these 2 week amateurs cannot really drive them properly either.

Cholentpot said:

There is only one definition of freedom. And it's Red White And Blue and smells of hotdogs.

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and too many times it had the smell of napalm!

RalphLambrecht said:

and too many times it had the smell of napalm!

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Ya know something interesting?

The 'Napalm Police Action' war is as far from my gen as WWI was from the 'nam gen. It's nearly irrelevant to us millennials. Not only don't we have a connection, most of our parents missed it too. It's like three generations ago.

It's like 'woahhh'

Instead we have 'quagmire'

MattKing said:

Our senators, like the sitting Lords in the House of Lords in England, are appointed, not elected. So re-election isn't something they worry about directly.
But otherwise the points above tell the story.
The biggest difference, of course, is that the executive branch only remains in power as long as enough of the individual elected members support them. So your individual MP has a bit more power than an individual member of congress.
And spending on elections is strictly limited, so the money people don't have as much clout.

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Apart from appointment vs election, if someone (titled group, or group of commoners) sends input, "This proposed law needs to address the following shortcomings as written...", just how much/little influence is there in getting the proposal modified?

wiltw said:

Apart from appointment vs election, if someone (titled group, or group of commoners) sends input, "This proposed law needs to address the following shortcomings as written...", just how much/little influence is there in getting the proposal modified?

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I think once Parliament learns that the subject is being debated on Photro they will sit up and take notice.

faberryman said:

I think once Parliament learns that the subject is being debated on Photro they will sit iPad take notice.

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IOW, to paraphrase, "Do you think any of them really care?...the elected ones might care a bit!"

wiltw said:

Apart from appointment vs election, if someone (titled group, or group of commoners) sends input, "This proposed law needs to address the following shortcomings as written...", just how much/little influence is there in getting the proposal modified?

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Actually quite a bit.
All the elected representatives I've dealt with have been pretty good at responding to constituent concerns. People don't always get the changes they want, but our representatives know that one constituent who feels that they were listened to is worth 100 who saw something in the news.
It is a really granular thing. The best representatives pay a large amount of attention to local concerns.

faberryman said:

I think once Parliament learns that the subject is being debated on Photro they will sit up and take notice.

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Nice one.

pentaxuser

MattKing said:

Actually quite a bit.
All the elected representatives I've dealt with have been pretty good at responding to constituent concerns. People don't always get the changes they want, but our representatives know that one constituent who feels that they were listened to is worth 100 who saw something in the news.
It is a really granular thing. The best representatives pay a large amount of attention to local concerns.

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That restores a bit of confidence in the processes of some countries, at least. Here it seems "if the other Party initiated the bill, I will not vote for it" or it goes into Filibuster so no one gets to vote on it. Paralysis by Party Line. That happened recently in the infighting about funding badly needed infrastructure repair (roads, bridges, etc.) Moderates of both parties are trying to make it happen, but the extremist wing may still seek to quash it.

A "bill" as changes to legislation is called in the U.K. has to be debated and amendments as the bill passes its various stages can happen.

As others have said this proposal is not a "done and dusted" matter but frankly if a government with a majority is determined that a bill must be passed then frankly it takes a "rebellion" from its own MP's to vote with the opposition to defeat the bill. Unless enough MPs are prepared to vote against their own party on the grounds of fundamental disagreement or enough receive enough representations from their constituents to cause them to report an anger great enough to cause the party to believe this will result in defeat at the next General Election then the government is liable to take the chance that anger will subside before the next election. I doubt if either scenario above is likely to transpire

So yes amendments might be possible, depending on how many MPs( Members of Parliament who each represent a constituency somewhere in the U.K. ) are persuaded that changes are meritorious

In reality in England and Wales I believe that even if the bill were to pass in the form of clauses that operate exactly as the OP has indicated there remains the question of implementation by an already stretched police force who are likely to have more pressing matters that knocking on the door of a lone campervan at 3:00 am in a lay-by in the middle of nowhere.

Frankly if someone chooses to move on each morning such that he becomes a "problem" the following night for a new set of police then I will be amazed to read about prosecutions of this kind of offence, should it become an offence


pentaxuser

faberryman said:

I think once Parliament learns that the subject is being debated on Photro they will sit up and take notice.

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The problem is that the UK is too small for all the residents who have recently discovered that they aren't content with their televisions and now want to go out into the countryside. If only they'd go to France, as Ralph Lambrecht suggests, or further. I don't know what the solution is, it depresses me utterly. I don't see that there can be one law/freedom for landscape photographers and another for gypsies, unless someone can find a way of defining infallibly what the difference is.

snusmumriken said:

The problem is that the UK is too small for all the residents who have recently discovered that they aren't content with their televisions and now want to go out into the countryside. If only they'd go to France, as Ralph Lambrecht suggests, or further. I don't know what the solution is, it depresses me utterly. I don't see that there can be one law/freedom for landscape photographers and another for gypsies, unless someone can find a way of defining infallibly what the difference is.

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Some people should just get a room.

snusmumriken said:

The problem is that the UK is too small for all the residents who have recently discovered that they aren't content with their televisions and now want to go out into the countryside. If only they'd go to France, as Ralph Lambrecht suggests, or further. I don't know what the solution is, it depresses me utterly. I don't see that there can be one law/freedom for landscape photographers and another for gypsies, unless someone can find a way of defining infallibly what the difference is.

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I don' think the whole caravan thing is new in the UK. I watch a lot of UK crime drama, new and old, and it seems like something is always happening in a caravan park. That always makes it tough for the DCI to solve the case because there is no video cam footage. I don't know why there are no video cams in caravan parks. They seem to be everywhere else, yet all the action is going on in the caravan parks. Anyway, Brexit pretty much eliminated the retiring to the south of France option. I am thinking about retiring to Darrowby. It looks idyllic and the vet care for my dogs looks pretty good too.

faberryman said:

I don' think the whole caravan thing is new in the UK. I watch a lot of UK crime drama, new and old, and it seems like something is always happening in a caravan park. That always makes it tough for the DCI to solve the case because there is no video cam footage. I don't know why there are no video cams in caravan parks. They seem to be everywhere else, yet all the action is going on in the caravan parks. Besides, Brexit pretty much eliminated the retiring to the south of France dream a lot of people had.

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Which crime dramas are these? I have no idea how many caravan parks have video but what makes you think it is none and that all the action is going on in caravan parks?

I think your information that you have obtained may be a little skewed but I will admit that pump action shotguns are now offered to caravan owners for a modest fee. The good news is that it must act as a deterrent as I don't recall hearing that they have ever been used

pentaxuser

If you have one of these signs on your van you can park anywhere in the UK.

faberryman said:

I don' think the whole caravan thing is new in the UK. I watch a lot of UK crime drama, new and old, and it seems like something is always happening in a caravan park. That always makes it tough for the DCI to solve the case because there is no video cam footage. I don't know why there are no video cams in caravan parks. They seem to be everywhere else, yet all the action is going on in the caravan parks. Anyway, Brexit pretty much eliminated the retiring to the south of France option. I am thinking about retiring to Darrowby. It looks idyllic and the vet care for my dogs looks pretty good too.

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There are two sorts of caravan parks. One for travellers / gypsies and one sort for everyone else.

The traveller parks are basically no go zones.

pentaxuser said:

Which crime dramas are these? I have no idea how many caravan parks have video but what makes you think it is none and that all the action is going on in caravan parks?

I think your information that you have obtained may be a little skewed but I will admit that pump action shotguns are now offered to caravan owners for a modest fee. The good news is that it must act as a deterrent as I don't recall hearing that they have ever been used

pentaxuser

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Well, there is an outside possibility I was exaggerating a little, but I have watched so many UK crime dramas it is hard for me to remember all the names. I would have to go over to Amazon Prime and look through Acorn and Britbox and all the other UK packages to do up a list. Let's say I have seen 10 or 15 shows, each 5-8 seasons long, 6-8 episodes per season; they add up pretty quickly. The funny thing is if you finish all the seasons and episodes of one show, and you look for another show, and you pick one and start watching it, you get the feeling that you might have seen it before, but maybe not because they are all basically the same, so you watch it anyway. You could easily end up watching the same shows over and over again and not realize it. That could skew your perceptions. The other funny thing is a lot of the time I can't understand what anyone is saying because they mumble with a heavy accent, particularly the ones set in Scotland. Sometimes I turn on the subtitles; otherwise there is no chance I'll be able to know what is going on much less figure out whodunit.

I started watching one last night that I can't remember the name of. I had to stop watching it because these guys all got drunk at a stag party and as a joke buried the groom alive in a casket with a walkie-talkie and an air hose, and then had a car crash, and three of the of the guys died and the other guy is in a coma or whatever, so nobody knows they buried the groom alive, they just know he is missing, and a guy who lives in a caravan park picked up the other walkie-talkie at the crash scene, so he's the key, but he doesn't look like he is too high up on the intelligence scale so that's going to be a problem, etc. Anyway, I am a little claustrophobic and figured I was going to have nightmares about being buried alive, so I turned it off.

So anyway, maybe caravan parks are all Camelot and there are surveillance cameras all over the place, but that's not my impression. And the only guys who have shotguns are the rich guys who have hunting parties on their country estates, in which case the murderer is probably the old caretaker who has the gun safe in his cottage and who is the brother of the guy who inherited the estate because their father had an affair that nobody knows about until they read the will of the guy that was murdered and all is made clear. Unless they trick you, and it was the housekeeper dressed up as a man, who murders the guy because he can't keep his hands off of her, and she is actually his sister because their father had another affair no ones knows about, not even the old caretaker guy who is unbeknownst to everyone the brother of the guy that got murdered because they lost the will, and the country estate is forfeited due to inheritance taxes, because none of of the lineal descendants has had a job since the Crusades, which is obvious because everyone's tuxedos and gowns are fraying a little around the edges. With the country estate forfeited, there is a pretty good chance they are going to convert the surrounding land into a caravan park, and then the real fun begins.

And you thought photography was complicated.

faberryman said:

And you thought photography was complicated.

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Kenny!

faberryman said:

Well, there is an outside possibility I was exaggerating a little, but I have watched so many UK crime dramas it is hard for me to remember all the names. I would have to go over to Amazon Prime and look through Acorn and Britbox and all the other UK packages to do up a list. Let's say I have seen 10 or 15 shows, each 5-8 seasons long, 6-8 episodes per season, and they add up pretty quickly. The funny thing is if you finish all the seasons and episodes of one show, and you look for another show, then you pick one and start watching it, you get the feeling that you might have seen it before, but maybe not because they are all basically the same. The other funny thing is a lot of the time I can't understand what anyone is saying because they mumble with a heavy accent, particularly the ones set in Scotland. Sometimes I turn on the subtitles; otherwise there is no chance I'll be able to know what is going on much less figure out whodunit.

I started watching one last night that I can't remember the name of. I had to stop watching it because these guys all got drunk at a stag party and as a joke buried the groom alive in a casket with a walkie-talkie and an air hose, and then had a car crash, and three of the of the guys died and the other guy is in a coma or whatever, so nobody knows they buried the groom alive, they just know he is missing, and a guy who lives in a caravan park picked up the other walkie-talkie at the crash scene, so he's the key, but he doesn't look like he is too high up on the intelligence scale so that's going to be a problem, etc. Anyway, I am a little claustrophobic and figured I was going to have nightmares about being buried alive, so I turned it off.

So anyway, maybe caravan parks are all Camelot and there are surveillance cameras all over the place, but that's not my impression. And the only guys who have shotguns are the rich guys that have hunting parties on their estates, in which case the murderer is probably the old guy that takes care of the estate and has the gun safe in his cottage and is probably the brother of the guy who inherited the estate because their father had an affair that nobody knows about until they read the will of the guy that was murdered and all is made clear.

And you thought photography was complicated.

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Stay out of the town of Causton! Way too many people die there. It is amazing that anyone is still alive there.*





* Midsomer Murders

Sirius Glass said:

Stay out of the town of Causton! Way too many people die there. It is amazing that anyone is still alive there.*
* Midsomer Murders

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I remember someone doing an analysis once that proved that Cabot Cove* had the highest murder per capita rate in the USA!
*Murder She Wrote

Sirius Glass said:

In southern California, we have sidewalks blocked by tents and someone wheelchair bound cannot pass and must go on the street to pass by. Furthermore freeway overpasses have tents on the sidewalks on both sides blocking passage for all. These encampment have health and sanitation problems. The communities and cities are working on finding suitable housing for the homeless, but there are no easy solutions and a lot of NIMBY. I can see why the UK would want to ban motor homes and RVs from allowing the same problems to arise. Would you want to photograph the countryside if the roads were lined with motor homes, RVs and tents? Why is it your right to crap up someone else's neighborhood?

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What would you do with the homeless? Just wondering.