Proposed UK law to restrict roadside camping

Arthurwg · Jul 12, 2021

Cholentpot said:
If you don't like the laws in AZ, you can move to OH. It may take effort, time and money but the government isn't stopping you.

Tell me again, why would anyone want to move to Ohio?

Sirius Glass · Jul 12, 2021

In southern California, we have sidewalks blocked by tents and someone wheelchair bound cannot pass and must go on the street to pass by. Furthermore freeway overpasses have tents on the sidewalks on both sides blocking passage for all. These encampment have health and sanitation problems. The communities and cities are working on finding suitable housing for the homeless, but there are no easy solutions and a lot of NIMBY. I can see why the UK would want to ban motor homes and RVs from allowing the same problems to arise. Would you want to photograph the countryside if the roads were lined with motor homes, RVs and tents? Why is it your right to crap up someone else's neighborhood?

faberryman · Jul 12, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
In southern California, we have sidewalks blocked by tents and someone wheelchair bound cannot pass and must go on the street to pass by. Furthermore freeway overpasses have tents on the sidewalks on both sides blocking passage for all. These encampment have health and sanitation problems. The communities and cities are working on finding suitable housing for the homeless, but there are no easy solutions and a lot of NIMBY. I can see why the UK would want to ban motor homes and RVs from allowing the same problems to arise. Would you want to photograph the countryside if the roads were lined with motor homes, RVs and tents? Why is it your right to crap up someone else's neighborhood?

Decades ago, when I was in my first house, the neighbor across the street would park his junker car in front of my house instead of his own. I asked him not to do so, but he said it was a public street and he was entitled to park there. Even though I had a garage, I had to park my car in front of my house to prevent him from doing so. The only other remedy was to keep letting the air out of his tires until he got the message, but I wasn’t certain he didn’t have a gun. This was especially an issue when I put my house on the market. The resale value goes down precipitously when you have a junker parked in front of your house. I guess I was lucky that someone didn’t decide to park in front of my house and sleep in his car, it being a public street and all. I probably would have objected to him pitching a tent on the sidewalk in front of my house instead of him sleeping in his car too.

Cholentpot · Jul 12, 2021

jnantz said:
there are lots of things that stop people from moving from state to state, like skin tone.

Yes. I'm sure TX has a sign at the border of OK, 'No skin tones allowed' Or maybe MA has one at the border patrol saying 'Keep away or we'll set the dogs on you.'

Cholentpot · Jul 12, 2021

Arthurwg said:
Tell me again, why would anyone want to move to Ohio?

Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of fresh water. Weather may suck most of the year but aside from some snow you're not going to get killed by an earthquake, hurricane, mudslide, flooding, tidal wave or most other disasters. And since no-one wants to be here the terrorists will stick to places they see in Hollywood films.

pentaxuser · Jul 12, 2021

Well we do seem to have moved a long way from the OP's and his thread's purpose

pentaxuser

Agulliver · Jul 12, 2021

I thought wild camping was already illegal in England and has been for around a century.

But what would I know....only been camping in tents since the 70s and only read one book on the history of camping in the UK...

Cholentpot · Jul 12, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Well we do seem to have moved a long way from the OP's and his thread's purpose

pentaxuser

As is tradition

Sirius Glass · Jul 12, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Well we do seem to have moved a long way from the OP's and his thread's purpose

pentaxuser

Cholentpot said:
As is tradition

But not necessary. Keep it up and the thread will end up in the Soap Box or closed. Get back on topic, please.

Vaughn · Jul 12, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Well we do seem to have moved a long way from the OP's and his thread's purpose

pentaxuser

Have we, really?

Cholentpot · Jul 12, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
But not necessary. Keep it up and the thread will end up in the Soap Box or closed. Get back on topic, please.

Right on.

So how does one in the United Kingdom of the Queen fight laws such as the ones proposed? I'm of the former colonies and the way of government over yonder baffles my walnut sized 'murican brain.

pentaxuser · Jul 12, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Right on.

So how does one in the United Kingdom of the Queen fight laws such as the ones proposed? I'm of the former colonies and the way of government over yonder baffles my walnut sized 'murican brain.

I'd say a Soapbox thread is what your question demands.

pentaxuser

BrianShaw · Jul 12, 2021

pentaxuser said:
I'd say a Soapbox thread is what your question demands.

pentaxuser

Not necessary, although I find it uncanny that your primary input has not addressed the issue and you seem to want to drive this discussion straight to the Shitbox… even if only by the constant hinting.

Allow me to aid and assist. The British way of “fighting laws”, including proposed laws, is about the same as in the US. Interested parties make their voices heard and live with whatever results.

if I’m incorrect please offer an alternative viewpoint.

wiltw · Jul 12, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Right on.

So how does one in the United Kingdom of the Queen fight laws such as the ones proposed? I'm of the former colonies and the way of government over yonder baffles my walnut sized 'murican brain.

Not having learned about UK goverance in school, I had to look this up http://projectbritain.com/government/laws.htm

"How does Parliament make new laws?

"A proposed new law is called a bill. Bills must be agreed by both Houses of Parliament and receive Royal Assent from the Queen before they can become Acts of Parliament which make our law.
"The Bill is introduced by a First Reading. This is simply an official notice that a Bill is going to be proposed and what it's about. It gives MPs time to prepare and discuss it.
"Shortly afterwards comes the Second Reading. At this point the principles are considered on the floor of the House. The Bill is then sent to be looked at by small groups of MPs who examine the Bill in detail.
"At the Third Reading the Bill is debated and there is a vote. If the Government has a majority, the Bill is then passed to the House of Lords.
"Once a Bill has passed through both Houses, it is sent to the Queen for the Royal Assent. Once it has Royal Assent the Bill becomes an Act of Parliament. It is the law of the land."

So how does a (commoner or Titled) ctizen bring up issues for discussion, either to House of Commons or House of Lords, somewhere in the process of Readings? For that answer...
https://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/have-your-say-on-laws/input-into-legislation/#:~:text=Bills are usually debated by,an issue on your behalf.

"Bills are usually debated by both Houses of Parliament. If you feel strongly about a Bill that Parliament is considering, or you think changes should be made to it, you can ask your MP or a Member of the House of Lords to raise an issue on your behalf. You can also send information (submit evidence) directly to a Public Bill Committee during its Committee stage in the Commons."

But the real question is whether such issues raised by citizens gets any better consideration in the two houses of Parliament in UK than any such input by a citizen in US get considered by the two houses of Congress?! Or is everyone mostly concerned about getting themselves re-elected at the next vote?

MattKing · Jul 12, 2021

Our senators, like the sitting Lords in the House of Lords in England, are appointed, not elected. So re-election isn't something they worry about directly.
But otherwise the points above tell the story.
The biggest difference, of course, is that the executive branch only remains in power as long as enough of the individual elected members support them. So your individual MP has a bit more power than an individual member of congress.
And spending on elections is strictly limited, so the money people don't have as much clout.

Sergey Ko · Jul 13, 2021

I traveled a lot with small trailer from Lithuania via Poland, Austria, Italy, France, Spain, Portugal. Also Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Sweden. Usually we stayed in the campings, but from time to time I made stops for sleep just on leisure parking lots (in Germany, Spain, Poland, France, Sweden) sometimes even on the petrol stations, but asking the personal before. Sleeping but not camping. I never had a problems! In Sweden (may be Norway too) the situation is a little bit different. I traveled with a motorbike & the tent, so it is allowed even to sleep in your tent until morning.
I am planning to travel around UK, so this information is actual for me.
Here we are:

Ferry to Norway by Sergey Kozlov, on Flickr

halfaman · Jul 13, 2021

Sergey Ko said:
I made stops for sleep just on leisure parking lots (in Germany, Spain, Poland, France, Sweden) sometimes even on the petrol stations, but asking the personal before. Sleeping but not camping. I never had a problems!

I think truck drivers do the same in some petrol stations.

guangong · Jul 13, 2021

And my question about just what a layby is. I suppose I have to reverence one of my dictionaries of the British dialect of English words.

removed account4 · Jul 13, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Yes. I'm sure TX has a sign at the border of OK, 'No skin tones allowed' Or maybe MA has one at the border patrol saying 'Keep away or we'll set the dogs on you.'

I guess you haven't been shot at by locals while driving in a car in TX? or when you went to a police station to ask where the spirit lake campground was ( spirit lake Iowa ) the police looked at you and told you "you aren't from around here are you" and then followed you to your car, crossed his arms stared you down and told you to "be careful" .. or lived in southie (south Boston) and your neighbors tried to murder you? or surrounded by 12 people at the "birthplace of freedom" ( faniel halll/quincy market Boston) mid day when there was a crowd who yelled at you to "go home" when you were a stone's throw from where you lived ... or followed into a suburban neighborhood ( you on your 3speed bike and the fuzz in a patrol car at 6pm on a summer Sunday night ) on your way home and told "you don't belong in this neighborhood" and then getting surveilled and harassed by the police until you went to speak with the desk sergeant ( who made you wait an hour to speak with him ) to ask why you are being tailed and harassed and surveilled in your own neighborhood ... no its not a sign that is posted at the border but its more of an unspoken and unwritten law that unfortunately some feel obliged to uphold.

last thing I would want to do is be car camping in a place that will arrest you for spending the night ..good luck OP, and get a good lawyer.

whojammyflip · Jul 13, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Your freedom ends when it gets in the way of my freedom.

This makes a lot of sense. Realistically, if you are wild camping, in a bivvy, so no one can see you, on the side of a mountain, the police are unlikely to stop you.

I've got a book here by John Clow on Snowdonia. He dedicates it to his B&B land lady Mrs Smith of Coed Gwydr, Nant Peris. Great photos.

perkeleellinen · Jul 13, 2021

Bishop's Itchington, blimey, hoojammyflip - you could have shouted that post and I would have heard from here (nearly)!

Cholentpot · Jul 13, 2021

jnantz said:
I guess you haven't been shot at by locals while driving in a car in TX? or when you went to a police station to ask where the spirit lake campground was ( spirit lake Iowa ) the police looked at you and told you "you aren't from around here are you" and then followed you to your car, crossed his arms stared you down and told you to "be careful" .. or lived in southie (south Boston) and your neighbors tried to murder you? or surrounded by 12 people at the "birthplace of freedom" ( faniel halll/quincy market Boston) mid day when there was a crowd who yelled at you to "go home" when you were a stone's throw from where you lived ... or followed into a suburban neighborhood ( you on your 3speed bike and the fuzz in a patrol car at 6pm on a summer Sunday night ) on your way home and told "you don't belong in this neighborhood" and then getting surveilled and harassed by the police until you went to speak with the desk sergeant ( who made you wait an hour to speak with him ) to ask why you are being tailed and harassed and surveilled in your own neighborhood ... no its not a sign that is posted at the border but its more of an unspoken and unwritten law that unfortunately some feel obliged to uphold.

last thing I would want to do is be car camping in a place that will arrest you for spending the night ..good luck OP, and get a good lawyer.

Yes yes and yes to all of this. You can't fix people but you can't kowtow either.

So now, we buy up our neighborhoods, defend ourselves when the police won't and became a voting block to be reckoned with. Society will never be perfect but we have the tools to make do. Anything is better than the 'old country'.

hoojammyflip said:
This makes a lot of sense. Realistically, if you are wild camping, in a bivvy, so no one can see you, on the side of a mountain, the police are unlikely to stop you.

I've got a book here by John Clow on Snowdonia. He dedicates it to his B&B land lady Mrs Smith of Coed Gwydr, Nant Peris. Great photos.

The law only counts when you're caught.

removed account4 · Jul 13, 2021

Cholentpot said:
Anything is better than the 'old country'.

Yup!

R.Gould · Jul 13, 2021

SAt least yoi can use a campervan, in Jersey we are not allowed to use one at all

Tom Kershaw · Jul 13, 2021

R.Gould said:
SAt least yoi can use a campervan, in Jersey we are not allowed to use one at all

Camper vans are not allowed into Jersey?

Proposed UK law to restrict roadside camping

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