Proposed UK law to restrict roadside camping

neilt3 · Jul 11, 2021

The Government are trying to bring in a new law to curtail peoples freedom to travel around their own country .
Like many others I have a campervan and like to travel around the country .

Being a photographer I travel to many a remote location and will find a quiet layby or remote carpark to park up in overnight where overnight parking is allowed .
I'm completely self contained in my campervan and always leave a place as I found it ( or even tidier )
If this law came in I could be sent to prison , fined and my van destroyed , just for parking up overnight !
In principle the law does have some merit for the purpose intended , but is badly written , victimising people going about their lawful business .

The idea behind introducing the law is to to make it harder for such as road protesters to set up camp on private land to prevent work going ahead , and so on .
But it will effect thousands of people who live in their vans permanently or for holidays . This doesn't jest effect gypsies invading peoples private land leaving rubbish and filth behind until the police move them on , but people that just travel around in a respectful manner .

For more information , see here ; https://www.euronews.com/travel/202...on-be-criminalised-for-wild-camping-in-the-uk

For those that agree that that people should be allowed to go about doing what they enjoy , or the lifestyle they choose that has no detrimental effect on others , or just to be allowed to live in a free country , please sign the petition below to get the proposed law amended ; https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/583903

If not it's the thin edge of the wedge . What will the Government make illegal next ?
After a year and a half of lockdowns it seems the Government have got a taste for running a Police state and might be getting ready to start a new fascist regime !

Value your freedom , stand-up for your rights , don't let them be eroded away .
Or soon you'll have neither ...

awty · Jul 11, 2021

What is wild camping?

ic-racer · Jul 11, 2021

What law? Any link?

Cholentpot · Jul 11, 2021

The former colonies across the pond encourage you to misbehave.

It's really nice having natural rights that are not granted by anyone.

neilt3 · Jul 11, 2021

awty said:
What is wild camping?

I notice your in Australia , so to put it in context , if you went travelling around your country in the outback for eg , in a campervan / motorhome / RV etc , you get to the end of the day and you find somewhere out of the way to park up overnight to sleep .
Then moving on after breakfast the following morning .
That's wild camping .

It's an alternative to staying on an official camp site of trailer park .

It's the same as if you went back packing , you walk for a day , set up camp for the night , and move on the next morning .
leaving the area as you found it .
That's also wild camping .

Please note I am referring to parking up somewhere in the middle of nowhere and not in a village , or on someone's lawn or drive !

neilt3 · Jul 11, 2021

ic-racer said:
What law? Any link?

See the first link I provided in the first post .
It's the new "Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill"

AgX · Jul 11, 2021

In Germany camping outside places designated for camping is not legal, and has been so for decades. At best one may stay to regain fitness to drive further.

gone · Jul 11, 2021

Unfortunately, I'm a US citizen, and not eligible to sign a UK petition because the UK laws don't affect me. Best of luck on this.

beemermark · Jul 11, 2021

neilt3 said:
It's an alternative to staying on an official camp site of trailer park .

So the law prohibits you from trespassing and camping on private property?

Click to expand...

removed account4 · Jul 11, 2021

don't you guys have a Walmart ? you can always overnight in a Walmart parking lot...
years ago I drove across the country ( usa ) and back again. we were IDK 2 hours away from our destination
and we pulled into a rest area... I got out of the car and did my best to wake up, we'd been driving for a while and
it was night.
there was a guy in a car next to us .. resting ...
a state trooper shined a light in his face and banged his window and yelled "there is no resting here"
makes me laugh every time I think of it.
you might be banned from free range camping, but at least you aren't banned from the pubs

Wallendo · Jul 11, 2021

It is interesting how different societies define "freedom". After reading the linked article, I found it amusing that the UK requires a license for paddle-boarding, but not for camping on private property.

BrianShaw · Jul 11, 2021

Cholentpot said:
The former colonies across the pond encourage you to misbehave.

It's really nice having natural rights that are not granted by anyone.

AMEN. Watching the UK from a former colony makes me think more and more that I might not even return for a visit. And that said by a person who loves British history, British cityscape/landscape, British food (really!), and most of the British people. The government and its henchmen seem to keep getting more and more repressive and stifling freedom. It’s a real shame.

Cholentpot · Jul 11, 2021

BrianShaw said:
AMEN. Watching the UK from a former colony makes me think more and more that I might not even return for a visit. And that said by a person who loves British history, British cityscape/landscape, British food (really!), and most of the British people. The government and its henchmen seem to keep getting more and more repressive and stifling freedom. It’s a real shame.

We may get made fun of here because we display all our warts and faults for the world to see but in the end we do that by choice.

We chose a loudmouth idiot and then turned around and chose a senile fool. Maybe to prove a point that freedom endures no matter who is in charge. Gotta give the founding Papa's their due, they knew that they were doing and did it right.

Good luck to you across the sea, you traded freedom for the veneer of security a long while back. Once freedom is given away it's nearly impossible to get back.

halfaman · Jul 11, 2021

AgX said:
In Germany camping outside places designated for camping is not legal, and has been so for decades. At best one may stay to regain fitness to drive further.

Same thing in Spain. Norway is the opposite, camping is allowed in the whole country except where indicated otherwise.

AgX · Jul 11, 2021

Yes, this is british thread, but looking at how things are handled elsewhere should be intersting when suchas civil freedom is hinted at.

Cholentpot · Jul 11, 2021

AgX said:
Yes, this is british thread, but looking at how things are handled elsewhere should be intersting when suchas civil freedom is hinted at.

I love The Beatles and Twinings. Not so much monarchy and nanny state.

BrianShaw · Jul 11, 2021

In Los Angeles we are just now initiating legislation to ban camping on sidewalks and other public areas. It’s about time. Some say it takes away the rights of the homeless but few seem to care that homeless have taken away the rights of everyone else.

BrianShaw · Jul 11, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I love The Beatles and Twinings. Not so much monarchy and nanny state.

Yorkshire Gold, my friend.

Cholentpot · Jul 11, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Yorkshire Gold, my friend.

I like m'tea loose as God intended. Really the only options here is Twinings and the stuff I can get from the Chinese store. I'll keep an out out for the Yorkie stuff though.

Earl Grey. Hot.

Sirius Glass · Jul 11, 2021

neilt3 said:
The Government are trying to bring in a new law to curtail peoples freedom to travel around their own country .
Like many others I have a campervan and like to travel around the country .

Being a photographer I travel to many a remote location and will find a quiet layby or remote carpark to park up in overnight where overnight parking is allowed .
I'm completely self contained in my campervan and always leave a place as I found it ( or even tidier )
If this law came in I could be sent to prison , fined and my van destroyed , just for parking up overnight !
In principle the law does have some merit for the purpose intended , but is badly written , victimising people going about their lawful business .

The idea behind introducing the law is to to make it harder for such as road protesters to set up camp on private land to prevent work going ahead , and so on .
But it will effect thousands of people who live in their vans permanently or for holidays . This doesn't jest effect gypsies invading peoples private land leaving rubbish and filth behind until the police move them on , but people that just travel around in a respectful manner .

For more information , see here ; https://www.euronews.com/travel/202...on-be-criminalised-for-wild-camping-in-the-uk

For those that agree that that people should be allowed to go about doing what they enjoy , or the lifestyle they choose that has no detrimental effect on others , or just to be allowed to live in a free country , please sign the petition below to get the proposed law amended ; https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/583903

If not it's the thin edge of the wedge . What will the Government make illegal next ?
After a year and a half of lockdowns it seems the Government have got a taste for running a Police state and might be getting ready to start a new fascist regime !

Value your freedom , stand-up for your rights , don't let them be eroded away .
Or soon you'll have neither ...

This does not seem to curtail freedom of travel as the OP posits, rather restricting where someone can plot down for a snooze. This is not a fascist act. It is about parking on the street and parking. I would not like you sleeping in front of my house or on my street. I would suggest that you just get a room.

neilt3 · Jul 11, 2021

beemermark said:
So the law prohibits you from trespassing and camping on private property?

No . The law is intended to prevent/control trespass on private land , typically from protester's , but is badly written and effects the innocent .
It doesn't effect groups of travellers ( often referred to as Gypsies ) that set up illegal camps leaving behind tons of commercial waste , domestic waste and human waste etc as "travellers" are a category with special protection under human rights legislation.

The law will prevent me going about my current lawful business on public land and the highway .
When I am on the road and I want to park up for the night I find somewhere off the public highway to park up , well outside towns or villages .
This is typically a layby at the side of the road , the same as HGV drivers do to park their wagons up overnight .
I pay my TAX's , insurance , MOT etc I am breaking no laws or harming anyone else .

If the new law came in , I could park my van at the side of the road or in a layby and pitch my tent on a publicly owned grass verge , public green area or common land and I will not be breaking the law .
It would just be illegal to sleep in the van .

Laws are already existing to deal with trespass , the illegal dumping of waste and other antisocial behaviour .
They need to either enforce these laws or alter them to allow the police to work more efficiently .
The new law is intended to legislate against "protesters", whose activities are the main focus of Sections 3 and 4 of the PCSC Bill. The Bill creates a new offence targeting individuals who "reside on land without consent of the occupier of the land "

But it also effects the 60,000+ people are living off-grid in accommodation such as vans, cars, buses, lorries or other mobile shelters in the UK . whose vehicles could be seized by the police making them homeless and then having to sleep in a cardboard box in the street !
This isn't just about dealing with trespass , it will criminalise many people who are currently breaking no laws .

Wallendo said:
It is interesting how different societies define "freedom". After reading the linked article, I found it amusing that the UK requires a license for paddle-boarding, but not for camping on private property.

Oh yes , we have some crazy laws !

BrianShaw · Jul 11, 2021

Cholentpot said:
I like m'tea loose as God intended. Really the only options here is Twinings and the stuff I can get from the Chinese store. I'll keep an out out for the Yorkie stuff though.

Earl Grey. Hot.

Ahem… God is a Yorkshireman. He sells on Amazon. If you don’t like the bags… cut them open.

Sirius Glass · Jul 11, 2021

BrianShaw said:
In Los Angeles we are just now initiating legislation to ban camping on sidewalks and other public areas. It’s about time. Some say it takes away the rights of the homeless but few seem to care that homeless have taken away the rights of everyone else.

+1 blocking sidewalks and taking up large play areas of parks. This is not an easy problem to solve but everyone even the homeless cannot just camp anywhere.

neilt3 · Jul 11, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
This does not seem to curtail freedom of travel as the OP posits, rather restricting where someone can plot down for a snooze. This is not a fascist act. It is about parking on the street and parking. I would not like you sleeping in front of my house or on my street. I would suggest that you just get a room.

Its actually nothing to do with parking on the street in a residential area and sleeping overnight .
The current law in England and Wales makes it illegal to sleep in a vehicle on the public highway .
In Scotland , it is legal .
If you follow the links you will understand what the law is about .
It is intended to make it easier for police to deal with protesters on private land , preventing works to take place etc .

But the law would prevent me from driving hundreds of miles away from any built up areas , parking in a layby ( still public land , not private , so no trespass , but off the public highway ) or other off road public parking place , to take photos at dawn .
Under the new law , this would be illegal and I could be fined or sent to jail as well as having my van seized .
People that live in vans etc that do no harm would also be breaking the same law .
Likewise , wagon drivers that are on the road will also be breaking the law if they park up overnight .

As noted , it's a badly written law that goes much further than it's intended purpose .
The groups of people it's aimed at are already breaking current laws , and need to be dealt with under these . The problem is the laws they are breaking are civil laws , not criminal law , and the land owner needs to go threw civil courts to enforce them rather than calling the police to enforce them , which takes much longer to enforce .
That's where the changes need to be made .

Cholentpot · Jul 11, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Ahem… God is a Yorkshireman. He sells on Amazon. If you don’t like the bags… cut them open.

God detests Amazon.

Anyhoo, cut the bag open? All the dust!? Mercy me!

Proposed UK law to restrict roadside camping

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