"Proper" cross process for E-4 film?

[2F/2F]

Hello,

Any ideas for a good cross process to obtain a color negative from E-4 film? I have given up on getting my Ektachrome IR film processed in the correct manner, and have decided to shoot for a negative instead. Would C-22 be the "correct incorrect" process for E-4? I have found some places that offer C-22 processing, though it is pricey. What would happen in C-41 (or E-6, for that matter)?

Thank you in advance.

 

[2F/2F]

P.S. If I were to do a clip test by piggybacking a strip of the film onto the back of a roll of C-41 film, and putting it through the C-41 process as an experiment, would the results of the regular C-41 film be affected?

 

[hrst]

Maybe C-41 at reduced temperature with hardener bath (formalin) in the beginning? Otherwise the emulsion may not survive the process. And it may be necessary to use ferricyanide bleach if I remember correctly some discussions...

 

[Photo Engineer]

Do not ever run an E4 film through E6 or C41. It will ruin the film and the process chemistry. The emulsion is too soft to survive and will float off in gobs and ruin the First Developer and any films going through with or after it.

If you wish to use it, use a prehardener, a neutralizer and a wash before the C-41 color developer. Even then, the C-41 process may be too "hot" for an E4 film. You may have to play with the time.

PE

 

[2F/2F]

Thanks for the healthy warnings...as I figured.

I figured E-6 and C-41 were out, and asked just as a curiosity. What I am really getting at is: How would an E-4 film have been crossed "back in the day"?:rolleyes: I am thinking that whatever process was used for this back then may be easier to rig up than E-4 would be. I can even send film to Rocky Mountain lab for C-22 if that will work.

 

[Photo Engineer]

E4 went through C-22 just fine! No prehardener was needed for E3 or E4 in C-22, and you usually gained a stop in speed. HS Ektachrome at 160 became a fine 400 film in C-22. The front cover of Life taken of Alan Sheppard as he left his Mercury capsule was shot and processed that way. It was then heavily color and contrast masked to fix it up. The original was a bit yellow in the toe.

PE

 

[wildbill]

Have you contacted filmrescue.com?

 

[2F/2F]

Haven't talked to them, but I will check it out. I am just going to send the film to wherever can do the cheapest C-22 process. Rocky Mountain does it, as I mentioned. Just gotta be willing to pay $22 a roll, or whatever high price they charge. (I'll make sure to just shoot one roll at a time!)

 

[jd callow]

You may want to try and work out a deal with whomever has the ability to soup it. The deal being that you will hold on to the film until you have x number of rolls for them to process effeciently. Most of the people who do niche processing charge what they charge in part because it is one off and wasteful. If you talk to them you may find that 10 or 20 rolls at one time will allow them to offer a far better price. As it is you will need to spend some money nailing the correct speed and filtration (if needed) prior to burning through 10 or 20 rolls. I have crossprocessed e6 IR and quickly realized that to get a neg that would make me happy was going to take some experimentation and at the cost of false colour IR I decided to pass. It did show promise. I suspect that e4 IR might be equally challenging.

 

[2F/2F]

Thanks, JD. Unfortunately, I have three rolls, and I intend for one of them to be a test. That's the way it goes with old film!

Do you have any online examples of your crossed color IR pix?

 

[Photo Engineer]

There is an excellent example on the cover of "The Book of Special Effects Photography" by Michael Langford. This is a very excellent book, often overlooked.

PE

 

[mts]

You could always mix up a batch of C22 from scratch using an alternative formula and process yourself. As PE mentioned, E4 doesn't like high temperatures. I have had reticulation problems with it even at 85F with a pre-hardener and neutralizer. Generally E4 is lousy film, in my opinion, or at least one that takes a lot more attention to processing than the current E6 and C41 films. I am interested in how you come out with your tests because I too have some E4/HS-IR in the freezer. By now it has likely lost its sensitivity, but someday a few experiments could be fun.

 

[wildbill]

Keith, I've found a bit more info on using the hardener, then processing as E-6. I know it's been said here that it can't be done but the info I have sounds good. I'm doing my own E-6 now and may try to get the chems for the hardener soon. If I have success, I'll let you know and will soup your stuff I you'd like. I shot a roll today that I'll do test strips with when I get around to it.
*mts looks to have tried it. I'll try it myself anyway.