Project Film

Well, where do I start? I am an avid photographer, who shoots, and develops film. Recently I have become slightly obsessive with the idea of producing my own film. I guess I am the sort of person that is not content with just purchasing things; I have to make them myself. I feel a great satisfaction in participating in the whole process.

I am always looking to understand how a product is manufactured, how it works, and try to see if can produce it. For example, my previous project was a joint venture with a friend to produce a car wax. Nearly a hundred attempts (and a house full of pots) later we managed to create a working prototype. He is now going to take over the project and start production with the goal of hopefully selling it as a niche handmade product.

So here I am, looking for a new project, and I am hoping that producing a working film is it. I am currently scouring the net to get all of the information to get me to the first step.I was speaking to someone on Reddit, who recommended that I come over to your site. I am going to have a trawl through the site, and see what I can learn. I am hoping to document the journey on here. Hopefully it might be helpful to others as well.

A great source of info: http://www.thelightfarm.com/ Denise is an active member here.

Let me short ask : "How much money you would like to invest?"
You may answer this question not in a very exact way?
Are we talking about $ 25.000,- or is the sum somewhere in the near of $ 300.000,-
or do you looking foreward to spent more?
For example $3,5 million of your risc/venture capital.
It is in addition not so bad to have min.
a $ million in reserve.
To each sum there is probably a good way to come to fine results but quality issues of your "personal emulsion" will be different.
Let me ask at least : Do you have registered a brand name?
with regards

Welcome to Apug!

One of our fellows here runs a film plant. It took him 12 years to get his own plant running. And that with many years of experience in that business in advance.
Maybe you better elaborate on your expression "producing my own film".


For someone without any knowledge I too advise you to look at what is offered at The Lightfarm.
And even if you succeed in producing something, there still must be someone to pay for it. And more than you invested...

AgX said:

Welcome to Apug!

One of our fellows here runs a film plant. It took him 12 years to get his own plant running. And that with many years of experience in that business in advance.
Maybe you better elaborate on your expression "producing my own film".

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Agx- this wouln't be funny at all !
Haven't you know : Albert Einstein was a real louser in maths at school.
Notice - to a real genius everything is possible.
But seriously it is depending (strongly depending) on the financially possibilities.
Last example : Howard Hughest !
He wasn't the real best one in construction. But his plane wasn't so bad.
These days is an urgend need to such kind of guys again.

with regards

PS : Pls. forgive me a bit OP - Ok ..!
My advice to you is still : have a try it is possible.

Motiv said:

Well, where do I start? I am an avid photographer, who shoots, and develops film. Recently I have become slightly obsessive with the idea of producing my own film. I guess I am the sort of person that is not content with just purchasing things; I have to make them myself. I feel a great satisfaction in participating in the whole process.

I am always looking to understand how a product is manufactured, how it works, and try to see if can produce it. For example, my previous project was a joint venture with a friend to produce a car wax. Nearly a hundred attempts (and a house full of pots) later we managed to create a working prototype. He is now going to take over the project and start production with the goal of hopefully selling it as a niche handmade product.

So here I am, looking for a new project, and I am hoping that producing a working film is it. I am currently scouring the net to get all of the information to get me to the first step.I was speaking to someone on Reddit, who recommended that I come over to your site. I am going to have a trawl through the site, and see what I can learn. I am hoping to document the journey on here. Hopefully it might be helpful to others as well.

Click to expand...

Making glass plates with emulsions, and the holders for those plates for 4x5 would be a amazing journey for you. I plan to make my own glass plates at some time, maybe even up to 11 x14 so I can use in my monster enlarger or just contact print.

There is a book and DVD advertised for sale here on the forum by member Ron Mobray (photoengineer) which covers the subject of film manufacture. There is also a subforum on emulsion making.

Ron Mowrey.

Bob Carnie said:

Making glass plates with emulsions, and the holders for those plates for 4x5 would be a amazing journey for you. I plan to make my own glass plates at some time, maybe even up to 11 x14 so I can use in my monster enlarger or just contact print.

Click to expand...

Well - coming short again to your "Monster Enlarger" Bob.
As I couldn't imagine enlargers much bigger than 8'x10' I allways wonder about bigger sized bw films.
16' x 20' for example. So I understand this
formats a contact printing film format.
The higher the size the better - to higher sized contact prints.
So do you know (sure this is a moster you have in 11 x 14) about real bigger enlargers?
Last month I noticed a video : A group of guys bougt an industrial enlarger from scratch.They improved this machine with led light, new electronic a.s.o.....!
It was 35cm x 50cm if I remember correct.
But I can't imagine to what size you can enlarge with such machines.
In Addition you need a) - an industrial plant as darkroom (because of the need of higher rooms) or b) - wall enlargements of course ?

with regards

The enlarger I have came to Canada in 1983 , to BGM Imaging. I actually worked on it making small prints from 11 x14 comp negatives and trans... when BGM decided to get out of enlarging they called me and gave it too me, I am grateful to this day for their generosity.
I did work on a 30 x40 Lisle Camera that made reduction films... my specialty was composite 16 x20 transparacey's for Magazine Pages.
My goal is to someday do 30 x40 Silver prints from 11 x14 negatives with my setup, just under 3 x magnification, I think the prints would be stunning, I have no desire to make bigger than that as I can work digitally to oversize with much ease.

There is a dude in Vancouver who has a brand new Horizontal 11 x14 enlarger that is doing extremely large silver murals, I have never seen his prints so have no comment on the quality . But if he is any good the prints should be mindblowing.

trendland said:

Last month I noticed a video : A group of guys bougt an industrial enlarger from scratch.They improved this machine with led light, new electronic a.s.o.....!
It was 35cm x 50cm if I remember correct.

Click to expand...

30x40cm

Bob Carnie said:

The enlarger I have came to Canada in 1983 , to BGM Imaging. I actually worked on it making small prints from 11 x14 comp negatives and trans... when BGM decided to get out of enlarging they called me and gave it too me, I am grateful to this day for their generosity.
I did work on a 30 x40 Lisle Camera that made reduction films... my specialty was composite 16 x20 transparacey's for Magazine Pages.
My goal is to someday do 30 x40 Silver prints from 11 x14 negatives with my setup, just under 3 x magnification, I think the prints would be stunning, I have no desire to make bigger than that as I can work digitally to oversize with much ease.

There is a dude in Vancouver who has a brand new Horizontal 11 x14 enlarger that is doing extremely large silver murals, I have never seen his prints so have no comment on the quality . But if he is any good the prints should be mindblowing.

Click to expand...

Thanks much Bob, well - I just was in Vancouver. 11 x 14 seams to be big enough.
So I am looking first to a new location
for a darkroom. Then I have to reactive some money sources. ..!

with regards

A new enlarger ! Wow !

Big enlargers are very pricey... upwards of 35k for good used so buyer beware.

Bob Carnie said:

Big enlargers are very pricey... upwards of 35k for good used so buyer beware.

Click to expand...

Thats the problem : A time ago I had 17k
but didn't bought such stuff.Now I have to reactive some money sources.
Perhaps a big robbery can help .
At least sitting in own darkroom for 25 years (without enlarger)

with regards

Bob Carnie said:

Big enlargers are very pricey... upwards of 35k for good used so buyer beware.

Click to expand...

What other market than Apuggers is still there for such beasts??

tedr1 said:

There is a book and DVD advertised for sale here on the forum by member Ron Mobray (photoengineer) which covers the subject of film manufacture. There is also a subforum on emulsion making.

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PE's book is sold out, the DVD seems to be only available at Fotoimpex. If you can get a copy, it will give you an idea of the chemistry and the mechanics involved.

@OP: What kind of film do you want to make?

Just asking because the guys here are jumping at €€€-investment for full scale industrial production in all sizes, but I think you can start small, too. You can buy ready made emulsion by Rollei and Foma, and uncoated sheet film should be available, too. So with a coating blade (optional - if you can find one - as far as I know not made any more) a sheet film or glass plates and the pre-manufactured emulsion, you can make your fist steps.

If you want to complicate your life then, start making your own emulsion. And if then your life is not complicated enough, you can try to change to 120/135 film. And build your own coating machine or buy one available on the market.

Before you rush off buying anything, have a look at youtube. There are videos available about coating paper / film, just poke around.

About your thought of making a business: most people expect reproduceable results from their films. So probably a handmade-not-quite-sure-how-it-turned-out film will mainly appeal to the hipster-lomo crowd, which is not very present on this forum. You might be able to find a niche there or in the arts-only segment, but a print depends on how it is printed. If you have a good neg, you can print it in all ways you want. If you have a-so-so neg, you have fewer choices for printing. I do not mind using "creative" papers, but I am quite picky on my film.

There is also a book called "The Book Of Alternative Photographic Processes". It is very hands on and shows you table-setup, tools and the craft of making emulsions and coating paper and film. The "salt print" with gelatin is the simplest predecessor of modern emulsion, probably a good starting point.

the guys here are jumping at €€€-investment for full scale industrial production in all sizes, but I think you can start small, too. You can buy ready made emulsion by Rollei and Foma, and uncoated sheet film should be available, too. So with a coating blade (optional - if you can find one - as far as I know not made any more) a sheet film or glass plates and the pre-manufactured emulsion, you can make your fist steps.

If you want to complicate your life then, start making your own emulsion. And if then your life is not complicated enough, you can try to change to 120/135 film. And build your own coating machine.

Yes - "Rauschen oder Korn" there are many ways to come to rome. As I may follow OP's intention I also have the idea of a prepared emulsion like the Rollei soup.But I didn't mentioned it - as I feel the OP want to make all by himself.
From the bottom of the full DIY experience.
$ 25.000,- should be a solid base to buy the raw chemicals you first need AND prepare a manufacturer production in small scale. It seams to be a must to me to have a small volume first in manufacturing and sale films.
It seams to me to be the very minimum of costs.
Otherwise you first manufacture plate-film to much less costs but I can't see a market to this.
And if you are thinking bigger you sure need more money.
It is a question of dimensions.
But why not ?
To have a more realistic view you sure need first an expert to manage the business. Some names were mentioned above - here I see the main problem.
That would be expensive .......
It will cost a nice sum - (external consulting) - Do you not think so ?
Perhaps we should first hear what OP is
willing to pay.....!

with special greetings

PS : OP is going to bring a bigger sum of money here to us at PHOTRIO !
You should better poker R.o.K.