Professional in camera meter vs outside meter?

Markok765

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
2,262
Location
Ontario, Can
Format
Medium Format
I am getting a Nikon F5, and I was wondering if I should still drag my Pentax Spotmeter V around. I am going to use the F5 on Matrix mode, with the color meter.

What is the difference? Obviously the in camera meter is faster, but what gives me a more accurate reading?
 

bdial

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
7,468
Location
North East U.S.
Format
Multi Format
I agree with Ray.
How it's used is more important than where it's located.

That being said, there is no meter that can handle 100% of the circumstances you may find yourself working in. In those times the best back up might be the meter in your head.
 

Lee L

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
3,281
Format
Multi Format
The real consideration for me with complex metering programs like color matrix metering mode present in the F5 is whether:

1) You can read its mind, i.e. understand how it's arriving at its optimum exposure (using multiple algorithms, colors, and 30,000 known good sample professional exposures) and know that it's giving you what you want.

2) It can read your mind and follow your intentions, your interpretation of the scene, and expose accordingly.

I find it simpler to use an external meter or a straight-ahead internal meter like the spot meter on the F5, plus my brain and experience.

The difference is in whether you decide or the camera decides.

Color matrix metering may be more "accurate" on most scenes if you have little experience. But if you follow it blindly without paying attention, you're losing a chance to educate yourself.

Lee
 

fschifano

Member
Joined
May 12, 2003
Messages
3,196
Location
Valley Strea
Format
Multi Format
Talk about snobbery. I sometimes use a rather battered N90s which also has a matrix metering system, albeit one that is not as sophisticated as the one in the F5. There is absolutely no need to carry an extra light meter with you. Nikon's matrix metering is that good. How can it be fooled? The usual suspects are to blame; strong back lighting, dark subject in an overwhelmingly light surround, or vice versa. Even then it's much better than any other averaging center weighted in-camera meter I've ever used. If I'm not mistaken, the F5 should also have a spot metering mode, as my N90s does, for those times when you just don't believe the matrix meter is right. With a little experience and sound judgement, you'll nail the exposure every time.

Do I own and use an incident meter? You bet I do. A number of my cameras do not have meters. A few have meters that don't work any more. The meter is invaluable for measuring constant and strobe studio lighting. You can bet your bottom dollar that I'm not giving it up. Do I carry it around with me if I'm out shooting with the N90s? Heck no. There's no need.
 

j4425

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
40
Location
East Rutherf
Format
35mm

I'm a huge fan of the matrix meter found in the nikon F5. I found my negs from the F5 are almost always spot on. When I'm shooting 35mm and shooting quickly, I have no qualms at all trusting the in camera matrix meter. It performs brilliantly. For the past couple weeks I've been studying the zone system and rating my favorite films along with learning how to properly use a hand held spot meter. It's an entirely different experience and a lot more fun but kind of hard taking meter readings from a constantly moving 11 month old.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
52,998
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format

You will get the most accurate and usable meter reading from the meter you learn best how to use.

If it is your intention just to let the meter determine your exposure, without exercising your judgment and some skill, my guess is that the matrix metering will result in a higher percentage of successful results.

Matt
 

Chan Tran

Subscriber
Joined
May 10, 2006
Messages
6,820
Location
Sachse, TX
Format
35mm
I get my poorer results using my F5 with matrix metering than the old minolta SRT101 with a non working meter. I sent the camera back to Nikon twice and it's still underexpose my film.
 

arigram

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
5,465
Location
Crete, Greec
Format
Medium Format
An in-camera meter sees through your lens, so it can compensate for different focal lengths and filters,
can read your film speed and gives you immediate response upon changing the camera settings, such as the aperture.
Plus it may be able to communicate with your flash for TTL exposures.
But it is reflected light only, often matrix and center weighted, almost never 1 degree spot.
With a hand held meter, you have to make all the adjustments yourself: ISO, shutter speed, aperture, filter factor, etc
but you can approach subjects for incident metering which might give more accurate measuring, you can use spot
metering for the Zone system or just accurate farway measuring, better measure any off the camera strobes and use the
same meter for different cameras.
Now, if you are going to be doing street photography with a 35mm camera, the built-in meter will be better suited, as it
will mean one less thing to carry, one less thing to adjust and you will get fast and good results. Plus with street photography
and BW film, you don't need incident, flash and spot metering.
 

haris

Marko, for difference of reflected metering (built in your camera) and incident metering (handheld meters), see here: http://www.sekonic.com/classroom/classroom_2.asp

But, if you decide to handheld meter, nd if you buy secondhand old meter, there are handheld meters with only reflected metering and no incident, so check that before buying.

In any case, using reflected or incident metering, you must learn how to use them, both methoods are not fullproof, that is you can't just point them and read what meters tells you.

I use handheld meter even when use cameras with integrated meter.
 

Jose A Martinez

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
617
Location
Mexico City
Format
Multi Format
Like five years ago I developed the habit of carry and use an incident meter all the time, no matter what kind of camera I'm working with. I do a lot of documentary and street photography and I can't think a reason to change this habit. More recently I start to use a fill in flash for a good number of situations, so a meter that gives me the ratio between natural light and flash is an imprescindible toll. For me, there is not a must do about using or not an outside camera meter, it's a matter of method, the one that gives you the best results, and let me tell you, carrying a light meter don't represent a big load.
 

Nicholas Lindan

Advertiser
Advertiser
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
4,248
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Format
Multi Format
Markok765 said:
... Nikon F5 ... should still drag my Pentax Spotmeter V around?
Click to expand...


Waste a roll of film and find out.

Take pictures of odd scenes, including ones that give trouble: one picture with the camera on 'Program mode' and one metered with the Spot V. Find which method gives you the highest % of success for your photography.

Shoot Kodachrome, Ektachrome or B&W. Color negative film wouldn't be a good choice - it has so much latitude that anything overexposed is OK.

John Henry and the Steam Hammer: Who will win - man or machine?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

kozesluk

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
121
Location
London, UK
Format
35mm
the basic of matrix metering is to find "some average value" by reading light values in EV from each zone and discarding zones that readed more than "sunny f/16 rule" in absolute - that's value that cannot occur under standard situations on Earth (even the moon is properly exposed in this manner).... so the matrix metering chip needs to know not only minimum aperture, but needs to know the maximum aperture too (to calculate absolute value of reading in each zone).... and it looks through the whole scene - for 100 ASA and 1/250 sec it sees f/5.6 to f/8 an in one zone it sees f/22... so it call that value a crap and don't evaluate it's value at all - it's basically a underexposure prevention in cases of strong backlight and such cases...
this is the basic that was introduced in Nikon FA....
in newer cameras the algorithm is more complicated and evaluate colour also, bud this is an elementary of matrix metering, that doesn't change.
I hope, of course, this told me a man, who worked in repair center....

I used matrix metering for a long time on D100, but I've found that I can't depend on it. And now I use center-weighted metering all the time and I think it's as precise as am I, but quicker.
Also on FE2 I use center-weighted metering ('cause it can't do it any other way) and I'm very happy with it.
So if time is important i think external meter isn't wise to use.
BUT
for longer exposures it's necessary (most SLRs can handle no less than -2 EV, even worse....)

sorry for my horrible english
 

arigram

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
5,465
Location
Crete, Greec
Format
Medium Format
Having spent some time taking street photos with a Hasselblad and a handheld reflected meter,
I've found that with a general metering when I step out of the door is more than enough.
I make adjustments by my head and rarely need to re-meter.
Only when in a difficult situation of lots of darkness and/or mixed light, like a roofed dark market.
You could even go by Sunny16, give a stop or two in shadowy areas and B&W will handle it fine.
 
OP
OP

Markok765

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
2,262
Location
Ontario, Can
Format
Medium Format

I think the Pentax Spotmeter V will have the same or better results as the in camera meter, but it is quite a large meter to carry around.
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
marko,

i think maybe you should use the meter in camera for a while,
test it against what you would do with a hand held meter.
bracket your exposures, and see how your meter works.
no meter is ever right all the time.
i use a the meter in my camera often ( pentax not nikon )
and i also carry a sekonic all the time. sometimes it is cheap insurance
to make sure things are as they seem.

have fun
john
 

John Koehrer

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,277
Location
Aurora, Il
Format
Multi Format
Markok765 said:
I think the Pentax Spotmeter V will have the same or better results as the in camera meter, but it is quite a large meter to carry around.
Click to expand...

Then why ask for someone else's opinion?
 

benjiboy

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
11,970
Location
U.K.
Format
35mm
The beauty of a separate meter Marko, is that you can think about your exposure before setting the camera
 

Ray Heath

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
1,204
Location
Eastern, Aus
Format
Multi Format
benjiboy said:
The beauty of a separate meter Marko, is that you can think about your exposure before setting the camera
Click to expand...

so Marko, the beauty of a built in meter is TTL metering which takes into account the ISO as you set it for the result you want to obtain and any filter that may be on the lens, you can then think about the suggested exposure settings before you make the exposure
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…