Product Discontinuation Notice From HARMAN technology Limited :

brianmquinn · Jul 17, 2013

Does any one know how well this paper lasts in storage? I am one who usually buys only enough paper to last me for a year or less so I go through a it before it gets too old. In the past I did a stock up when Kodak Polycontrast paper was being phased out but it started to go bad before I used it all.

On the other hand I have used have used different Kodak papers that were over 40 years old and were perfect.

So what the oldest pack of THIS type of Kentmere paper that someone has used and how was it.
I would guess the RC and Fiber versions would last the same amount of time so if you only know about the RC paper still post what you know.

wildbill · Jul 17, 2013

I've used some that was 4 years (maybe) more and it didn't have any noticeable fog. Much better storage live than forte polygrade........

walbergb · Jul 18, 2013

Simon R Galley said:
The KENTMERE and ILFORD brands are obviously very different, we discontinued this product as it was no longer viable to coat due to the low volumes sold. The ILFORD range of film and paper products have never had a product range deleted* since HARMAN technology Limited took over, and we have only added NEW products, this is our clearly stated committment to analog photography WE KEEP ALL ILFORD branded products.

First, thanks for the communique. I understand and accept that you have to be profitable to stay in business. I admire your company's commitment to analog photography and support you in the best way I know how--by buying your products (it helps that you make very good products) Analog photographers are a hardy lot (we have a community website) and we will adjust, albeit grudgingly!

Simon R Galley · Jul 18, 2013

VC FB paper will keep for a minimum of 5 years provided it is stored correctly, namely in a cool dry place ( it does not have to be frozen but that can extend the life ).

The product itself post that sort of period can build base fog and loose sensitivity and top end contrast as well as D.Max.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Ricardo Miranda · Jul 18, 2013

The ILFORD range of film and paper products have never had a product range deleted

Simon
Could you say what is the production status of Ilford PAN 100 and 400, please? Have they been discontinued? There isn't any information about these films on your website.

A couple of suggestions for your consideration:
If this Kentmere paper can't be produced continuously, how about adding it to the annual ULF run? Tell people what is the minimum order for a production run, and lets see what is the response! Advertise on your website and let people know.
I can't figure out why a film made in the UK sells for a higher price than one made elsewhere. I'm talking specifically about Kentmere films. Until last year they were sold at competitive prices at the retail point and about the same as other films of same quality from the continent. Then the retail price jumped to about £1 more per roll, where others had a smaller price increase.
Could I suggest doing some form of seasonal discount for these films? I would love to buy "local produce", but with prices higher than the competition, I can't afford it!
Thank you!

pentaxuser · Jul 18, 2013

Ricardo Miranda said:
Simon
Could you say what is the production status of Ilford PAN 100 and 400, please? Have they been discontinued? There isn't any information about these films on your website.

I can't figure out why a film made in the UK sells for a higher price than one made elsewhere. I'm talking specifically about Kentmere films. Until last year they were sold at competitive prices at the retail point and about the same as other films of same quality from the continent. Then the retail price jumped to about £1 more per roll, where others had a smaller price increase.

On the above: It is unlikely they have been discontinued. Firstcall is still selling the Pan 400 and maybe the 100 as well. I stopped looking after I had found the 400 film. The 100 and 400 aren't widely available in the U.K. It seems that Ilford has decided that their markets are elsewhere but certain retailers are able to get hold of them

On the second point a number of us in the U.K. keep asking the same question. Some even buy their film from the U.S. and find it cheaper even with customs duty etc than purchasing in the U.K.

pentaxuser

slm · Jul 18, 2013

This was by far my favourite paper. What is the closest alternative ?

Steven

Ricardo Miranda · Jul 18, 2013

Pentaxuser
Thanks! Not only Firstcall, but also The Imaging Warehouse sell them. But there is no info on Ilford's site!
And, on the second point, I've seen the questions, but not the answers!

wildbill · Jul 18, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
Simon - why not advertise it instead? Nobody knew about it. One of the best papers ever made ... and apparently there goes the last premium cold tone paper on the market. MG IV doesn't even come close to its richness.

EXACTLY!
it didn't/doesn't even come up in freestyle's search window.

brianmquinn · Jul 18, 2013

Well Freestyle Does sell it.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/98984-Kentmere-Fineprint-VC-FB-Neutral-Tone-Glossy-8x10-100-Sheets

Also I did a Google Shopping search and found that even Staples and Quill now sell Kentmere Paper!

Don't also forget about the downward spiral of a product. It does not sell well, fewer retailers then carry it in stock, it sells even less then, since it brings in less money the maker of the product does not have the money to advertize it, etc.

I will be sad to see it go. However if it will last 5 years in storage perhaps there could be a special run every few years like the ULF order. Only Harman knows what the sales were and if this can be done.

polyglot · Jul 18, 2013

Well, that is a pity; I rather liked that stuff.

Still, I quite understand that it may not be economical to keep two product lines that serve basically the same purpose and effectively compete with each other. Keeping Ilford as a whole profitable is more important than any one product line.

I don't see how the ULF thing would help. The issue is not that particular sizes sell in small quantities, but that the emulsion itself sells in small quantities. The huge quantity of HP5 and FP4 sold allow for annual batches of weird sizes to be cut from the same stock; the preorder process just ensures no wastage from unsold/unsaleable packs in bizarre sizes.

wildbill · Jul 18, 2013

brianmquinn said:
Well Freestyle Does sell it.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/98984-Kentmere-Fineprint-VC-FB-Neutral-Tone-Glossy-8x10-100-Sheets

Also I did a Google Shopping search and found that even Staples and Quill now sell Kentmere Paper!

Don't also forget about the downward spiral of a product. It does not sell well, fewer retailers then carry it in stock, it sells even less then, since it brings in less money the maker of the product does not have the money to advertize it, etc.

I will be sad to see it go. However if it will last 5 years in storage perhaps there could be a special run every few years like the ULF order. Only Harman knows what the sales were and if this can be done.

For the record, I didn't say they didn't. I've bought quite a bit of it there. They don't exactly give it much space in their catalog.

DREW WILEY · Jul 18, 2013

Freestyle has been aggressively pushing their Adox Premium VCFB - a damn good paper in its own right, but so far I haven't found any way to
turn it into a true cold tone like I could do with Fineprint or Polygrade V. It is largely immune to gold toner. There goes about half my 8x10
negs which were deliberately shot for cool tone. The other half will fit onto the scope of MGWT, which thankfully looks like it will stay around.
I might try Oriental VC again, but every time previously it seemed anemic - color analogous to the classic old Seagull G, but nowhere near the
punch. Looks like there's going to be a huge vacuum for a premium cool-toned paper. I've already invested so much money stockpiling film and rare supplies that this is going to be a hurdle. B&H still shows Kentmere as a special order item, so I'm probably try to acquire a few boxes. I've got only one box of 20x24 on hand, and have nearly run out of my old Polygrade V too. Fineprint also got an undeserved bad rap
because a few sheets here and there had little coating holidays. I saw maybe two sheets like that, and a friend of mine got a bad sheet or
two, but most of the paper was perfectly good. Hopefully Ilford or someone else will get their thinking cap on and see the market potential for a premium cold toned paper. I don't know if there is any reasonably fresh inventory of graded Galerie anywhere. But Simon should be
forewarned, the NSA has already scooped the formula for Fineprint, and a malcontent defector has threatened to leak it to the British tabloids! And maybe its time to dump any prints toned with British tea into the Boston harbor!

Sal Santamaura · Jul 18, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
...I don't know if there is any reasonably fresh inventory of graded Galerie anywhere...

All my recent purchases of Galerie have been manufactured ten or so months before I received them at the end of the distribution/retail pipeline. That's consistent with other Ilford-branded high-volume products like Delta 100 and MGIV FB. So it seems that Galerie sales volume is in balance with coating volume.

mr rusty · Jul 18, 2013

just ordered 100 8x10 sheets from harman express.

DREW WILEY · Jul 18, 2013

Thanks again, Sal. My negs are very consistent, so I can certainly get by with Gr3 Galerie if necessary. I haven't used it in a long time, but
assume that it's still similar to the old days. Otherwise I'll try to stockpile a couple years worth of Fineprint. I still have a tiny bit of true old
Seagull G20x24 on hand! ... wonder if it's still any good? I've grown accustomed to the convenience of VC papers, esp when switching between
different formats in the same printing session. But since I cut my teeth on graded it's no big deal. The occasional high contrast anomaly can
simply be masked down - just like I did it in days of yore.

clayne · Jul 18, 2013

"Product Availability" and "Industry News" are my two most hated forums on here.

jeff.blackwell · Jul 18, 2013

Back when it was coated by Forte, Bergger's neutral tone paper was fairly cold. Not as cold as Forte MG, but it would do in a pinch, especially with a cold tone developer. Has anyone tried the newer Bergger papers?

DREW WILEY · Jul 18, 2013

Well it's a triple whammie.... Forte VC went down, then EMaks, and now.... The EMaks graded has a lovely silvery tone, and unlike VC papers you could "snatch" develop it for very subtle effects without it going blaah. I suspect it was rebranded several ways. My interest is mainly in
a classic cold tone paper with a lot of snap to it - high silver content and high DMax, responsive to toners. Fineprint wasn't perfect, but could
be coaxed into magnificence. Too bad we didn't sing it's praises enough - maybe that would have saved it. Seems the story of my life - just
as soon as I've really mastered a product, it routinely disappears. I wonder how the Brits pronounce Murphy's Law?

StoneNYC · Jul 18, 2013

Ricardo Miranda said:
Simon
Could you say what is the production status of Ilford PAN 100 and 400, please? Have they been discontinued? There isn't any information about these films on your website.

A couple of suggestions for your consideration:
If this Kentmere paper can't be produced continuously, how about adding it to the annual ULF run? Tell people what is the minimum order for a production run, and lets see what is the response! Advertise on your website and let people know.
I can't figure out why a film made in the UK sells for a higher price than one made elsewhere. I'm talking specifically about Kentmere films. Until last year they were sold at competitive prices at the retail point and about the same as other films of same quality from the continent. Then the retail price jumped to about £1 more per roll, where others had a smaller price increase.
Could I suggest doing some form of seasonal discount for these films? I would love to buy "local produce", but with prices higher than the competition, I can't afford it!
Thank you!

I've never even heard of Ilford Pan 100 or 400... weird...

Ricardo Miranda · Jul 18, 2013

Stone
Have a look here: http://www.theimagingwarehouse.com/ProductGrp/Ilford-Pan-100

Gim · Jul 18, 2013

StoneNYC said:
I've never even heard of Ilford Pan 100 or 400... weird...

Maybe instead of making 2700 post in 11 months you should have read 2700 post.

Dinesh · Jul 18, 2013

Gim said:
Maybe instead of making 2700 post in 11 months you should have read 2700 post.

Brilliant!

canuhead · Jul 18, 2013

Simon,

Maybe I missed it but did you clear up the Bromide 'run down' query ? Love it and would really hate to see it EOL'ed. I think many are looking for clarity on this one.

thanks

zsas · Jul 18, 2013

canuhead said:
Simon,

Maybe I missed it but did you clear up the Bromide 'run down' query ? Love it and would really hate to see it EOL'ed. I think many are looking for clarity on this one.

thanks

I agree Canuhead^

Simon - We cold paper/chem folks are still stinging from the recent Cooltone decree, so we are now sensing a "disturbance in the matrix" re the "run down" bromide reference. Say it ain't so....

Please, no double whammy....

You know I love your company, products, service, engagement....just looking for some clarity....

Product Discontinuation Notice From HARMAN technology Limited :

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