processing old colour neg and slide film

spoolman · Apr 22, 2008

Hello All:I recently aquired a significant quantity of E-4 and C-22 colour slide and neg film.I have heard that E-4 can be processed in E-6 chemistry at the E-4 temperature.Same goes for C-22 in C-41 chemistry.I have a Kodak info sheet that details doing this very process with C-22 in C-41 at the C-22 temperature.

Anyone try these methods and what were the results?.All film is dated betweenJanuary 1966 and December 1971.

Thanks,

Doug

Akki14 · Apr 22, 2008

I've only done c-22 in Diafine (B&W developer) with good results. I'm not sure if you can really develope E-4 as E-6 or C-22 as C-41, I didn't think it was so in either case because the chemicals just aren't the same.

Mike Wilde · Apr 22, 2008

c-22 in c41 - a no no

I believe that c-41 is hotter than c-22. In c-22's day the gelatine was not as hardened. It might cause the emusion to slide off the base if processed in c-41. Somewhere in my at home notes I have how to adapt home brew chemistry for c-41 to c-22. The one thing I recall is that it is a long process, and I think it was recommended that there was a formalin hardener. Think about putting them on display, and get a deal on drug store sale c-41 film instead, unless you just want to do it to show that you can.

I can identify with the fiddling just for fun. On the weekend I was working on calibrating D-19 developer time and effective speed for some fine grain positive release film for use as an enlarged negs for afuture alt process print project idea I have in my head.

I have about 19 sheets of 8x10 and a number of partial sheets. The box has a date of 1977 on it. The asa is now about 1.5, and since it was slow to start with (about 3 asa from the review of literature that I find on it), the speed drop is not too bad, and the fog is not awful unless going for high gammas. In that case you need to toss in some restrainers, and then the effective speed drops even more.

spoolman · Apr 22, 2008

processing old colour film

Hello Mike:Thanks for the advice.I just got off the phone with a former Kodak Tech Rep. I know from my days working at Pro Labs here in T.O.He says as long as you keep the temp.close to or right on the old processes,you won't need a hardener to prevent damage to the emulsions.In the case of C-22 in C-41,there might be either a contrast mismatch or slight colour cast.

As for E-4 in E-6,he said I'd be taking my chances as he knows of no alternative to processing E-4 in E-6.The film emulsions being so different technology wise he couldn't guarantee that I would get acceptable results.So I guess I'll just shoot a few rolls of each and see what happens.

Thanks again for your input.

Doug

Tom Hoskinson · Apr 22, 2008

spoolman said:
Hello All:I recently aquired a significant quantity of E-4 and C-22 colour slide and neg film.I have heard that E-4 can be processed in E-6 chemistry at the E-4 temperature.Same goes for C-22 in C-41 chemistry.I have a Kodak info sheet that details doing this very process with C-22 in C-41 at the C-22 temperature.

Anyone try these methods and what were the results?.All film is dated betweenJanuary 1966 and December 1971.

Thanks,

Doug

Yes, I have processed E4 False Color IR film in E6 chemistry (at E6 processing temperatures) AFTER Hardening the emulsion with Kodak PREHARDENER SH-5 (Formaldehyde based). The image color was probably adversly affected - but with False Color Film - the results were good enough for my purposes.

If you would be satisfied with Black and White images, you could develop the film in a Phenidone based B/W film developer (like TMax or DDX).

Photo Engineer · Apr 22, 2008

Processing the old films in the new processes even at lower temperature can be iffy at best.

The C41 process uses a new developing agent and no benzyl alcohol, and the E6 process uses a new first developer and no benzyl alcohol in the color developer.

This can yield some strange results, but since the film is so old, you may never be able to tell which is worse, the film or the process.

PE

spoolman · Apr 24, 2008

processing old colour film

Hello Tom:Thanks for your input.Regarding processing these films as B&W,what woulsd you recommend as a starting point for film asa,developer time and temp?.

Thanks,

Doug

spoolman · Apr 24, 2008

processing old colour film

Hello Ron:Thanks for your input.I'll be taking Tom's suggestion to process a roll of each as B&W.Also I found hidden in one of the boxes of 828 film 8 rolls of Kodachrome II film.I understand that the Kodachrome process starts out with a B&W type first developer and then the different dye developers and colour re-exposures take place.Any recommendations on processing this film as B&W?.
If so,what problems would I encounter trying to remove the rem jet coating?.

Thanks,

Doug

Photo Engineer · Apr 24, 2008

I have no suggestions for development of the films, but I can say that rem jet removal is a mess, a pain, and can ruin the developer for further use.

We dipped the film into carbonate solution for a few minutes and then using a folded wet sponge wiped the front and back of the film at the same time. This was pretty effective. Then we washed the film in running water to remove any residual rem jet.

PE

spoolman · Apr 24, 2008

old colour film processed as B&W

Hello Ron:Thanks for the info.Would a presoak in water facilitate the removal of the remjet coating?.If not,what would be the concentration of the carbonate solution and at what temp.would it be used?.Does it matter what type of carbonate?.I'm assuming you are refering to sodium carbonate.

Thanks,

Doug

Photo Engineer · Apr 24, 2008

A presoak would not help much. Use carbonate, about 50 g/l IIRC. Sodium Carbonate, and either anhydrous or monohydrate as the amount is not critical.

Use it on the Kodachrome for about 2 minutes at 68 deg F and then wipe very very gently with a sponge wetted in the carbonate. Then wash for about 2 minutes in running water and then develop. Times are probably not critical in this case, but would be in a real color process.

PE

spoolman · Apr 25, 2008

processing old colour film

Hello Ron:Thanks for the info.When you mention a real colour process,are referring to C-41 or E-6?.Do I rate the film at it's normal ASA or will whatever process I choose affect how I rate it?.Also,what temp do I process it at or will that be a hit or miss proposition ?.

This should do it for this subject.Thank you all for your help.

Doug

Photo Engineer · Apr 25, 2008

Kodachrome cannot be done in anything but the Kodachrome process itself or a B&W process. It is the only color film (except motion picture camera stock) that has rem jet. So, I refer you to the Kodachrome process when I speak of the real color process.

I have no idea what ISO speed to use for any old film or any film not processed in its own process, nor can I suggest process conditions. I do suggest you use 20 deg C or 68 F for B&W processing.

PE

Terrence Brennan · Apr 26, 2008

About ten years ago, when working for a pro lab, we received several rolls of the then-current colour motion picture film. If memory serves, it was designated Eastman 5247 Motion Picture Film.

As it had a rem jet backing, we caught it (on a C-41 dip and lift processor) as it came out of the first wash tank. As we had allowed it to wash, we swabbed the base side with a wet cotton pad, until all of the rem jet was gone. We then returned it to the first wash for a further ten minutes, and allowed the C-41 process to continue (fix, wash, stabilizer and dry).

I had no part in the contact printing of the negatives, but there were images on the film!

spoolman · Apr 26, 2008

processing old colour film

Hello Terrence:Thanks for that information.It is very useful.

Doug

processing old colour neg and slide film

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