Processing Kodachrome as Black and White with Adox FX-39

fabulousrice · Dec 31, 2023

As the title implies I would like to process Kodachrome 200 with Adox FX-39.
I found this resource but it's a different developer than the one I use, can I still follow these instructions?

All I have is the FX-39 and some Ilford Rapid Fixer - I'm not sure if I can make the "bleach" and "clearing solution" or where I would even find these chemicals - can I still get exposures if I skipped these steps?
I'm also really confused with the step where you expose the film to light. How do you consistently expose 5 feet of film to light for the same amount of time? What kind of lamp / film holder does one need?

I'm only trying to get exposures for long enough that I can scan them, I don't need to preserve them forever.

koraks · Dec 31, 2023

Do you need to process the film into positives? If you can live with negatives (you're scanning after all) you can forego the bleach, reexposure and redevelopment steps. It would be just a regular b&w process: develop, stop, fix, wash.

Remjet can be removed before development in a remjet removal bath, or during the final wash (in daylight). I prefer the latter with the remjet backed film I shoot (not Kodachrome).

bdial · Dec 31, 2023

Your FX-39 will work for developing the film, but you may need to experiment to figure out timing.
Since you’re in LA, Freestyle would likely be a good source for the bleach chemistry if you want to process the film as positives.

rcphoto · Dec 31, 2023

I would also just process as B&W.

But for what it is worth, ilford gives really good instructions on the second exposure. https://www.ilfordphoto.com/reversal-processing/

blee1996 · Dec 31, 2023

There are a few unique steps to develop Kodachrome as B&W negatives:

1) Remjet removal before B&W developer (FX-39 in your case)
2) An additional bleach step after fixer, otherwise the negative will be way too dark to scan

Here is a detailed step-by-step instruction that is fully verified:

Finding Kodachrome and Bringing Back Color (the Digital Way)- By Zheng Li

Some of us know Kodachrome from the iconic Afghan Girl photo by National Geographic's Steve McCurry. Some of us might even have watched the 2017 movie of the same name, about an estranged son trying to develop the last few rolls of exposed Kodachrome from his late father. Some of us, lucky...

www.35mmc.com

fabulousrice · Dec 31, 2023

blee1996 said:
There are a few unique steps to develop Kodachrome as B&W negatives:

1) Remjet removal before B&W developer (FX-39 in your case)
2) An additional bleach step after fixer, otherwise the negative will be way too dark to scan

Here is a detailed step-by-step instruction that is fully verified:

Finding Kodachrome and Bringing Back Color (the Digital Way)- By Zheng Li

Some of us know Kodachrome from the iconic Afghan Girl photo by National Geographic's Steve McCurry. Some of us might even have watched the 2017 movie of the same name, about an estranged son trying to develop the last few rolls of exposed Kodachrome from his late father. Some of us, lucky...

www.35mmc.com

Thank you for the link - I do find it way above my skill level and not as detailed as I would have liked ("Stop bath"? "Hypo clear"? I don't do any of these when I process color or BW, what do they mean? Where does one find Citric Acid? Can I use lemon juice?

rcphoto · Dec 31, 2023

You can buy stop bath from the same place you get your other chemistry or just use water as a stop. I assume you are already using water between your developing and fixing. A quick search on photrio will yield results to most of these questions as well.

blee1996 · Dec 31, 2023

fabulousrice said:
Thank you for the link - I do find it way above my skill level and not as detailed as I would have liked ("Stop bath"? "Hypo clear"? I don't do any of these when I process color or BW, what do they mean? Where does one find Citric Acid? Can I use lemon juice?

You can use water for "stop bath" and skip "hypo clear".

You can get Citric Acid from grocery stores and online: they are often used in kids' science experiments.

MattKing · Dec 31, 2023

fabulousrice said:
Can I use lemon juice?

No.

fabulousrice · Jan 2, 2024

blee1996 said:
You can use water for "stop bath" and skip "hypo clear".

You can get Citric Acid from grocery stores and online: they are often used in kids' science experiments.

You mean something like this?
How much do you mix in with water when used in film processing steps?

koraks · Jan 2, 2024

Yes, food-grade citric acid works.

fabulousrice said:
How much do you mix in with water when used in film processing steps?

From the link @blee1996 provided:

Step 9: dissolve 35 grams of citric acid powder in 350ML of fixer (reused from step 5, Ilford Rapid Fixer 1+4), stir until they are well combined. The bleach/fixer was clear. Once the film was dipped in, the liquid started to turn yellow-greenish and cloudy. Check negatives every 5 minutes to make sure you don’t over bleach.

Citric acid is also often used as a stop bath, but in this case, it seems to be used as a clearing agent for supposedly some dyes remaining in the film, which is an unusual case. A normal stop bath dilution would be e.g. 1% or 2%, so 10g to 20g citric acid in 1000ml of water.

fabulousrice · Jan 2, 2024

koraks said:
Yes, food-grade citric acid works.

From the link @blee1996 provided:

Citric acid is also often used as a stop bath, but in this case, it seems to be used as a clearing agent for supposedly some dyes remaining in the film, which is an unusual case. A normal stop bath dilution would be e.g. 1% or 2%, so 10g to 20g citric acid in 1000ml of water.

Thank you. Could the solution be saved and reused afterwards, or should it be discarded?

koraks · Jan 2, 2024

I expect the fixer with citric acid could be reused like regular fixer: a few times over the course of a few weeks. Watch out for any sedimentation or silver plating on the walls of the bottle, and perform a clearing time test to be sure.

fabulousrice · Jan 2, 2024

koraks said:
I expect the fixer with citric acid could be reused like regular fixer: a few times over the course of a few weeks. Watch out for any sedimentation or silver plating on the walls of the bottle, and perform a clearing time test to be sure.

How does one perform a clearing time test?
Do you mean that it would be better off saved in a transparent bottle? I use collapsible (accordion) black bottles that keep most of the air out.
Should I do this test also for color chemicals? I've never heard of it

MattKing · Jan 2, 2024

fabulousrice said:
How does one perform a clearing time test?
Do you mean that it would be better off saved in a transparent bottle? I use collapsible (accordion) black bottles that keep most of the air out.

Clearing time test: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...ixing-procedure-for-black-white-negatives.75/
Accordion bottles are highly un-recommended!

fabulousrice · Jan 2, 2024

MattKing said:
Clearing time test: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...ixing-procedure-for-black-white-negatives.75/
Accordion bottles are highly un-recommended!

Oh no! I thought I was doing the right thing. Why are they bad? Which ones do you use?

MattKing · Jan 2, 2024

They are almost impossible to properly clean between uses, and the material they are made of and the corners of the "pleats" tend to enhance, not decrease, the amount of oxygen that permeates through them.
Glass is the best - with good polycone caps - but is harder to handle. 1 and 2 litre glass bottles designed for "growler" (beer) fills are a personal favorite, due at least partly to the additional finger grip.
Otherwise, heavy walled PET bottles - think club soda - are a good choice.
The quality of the caps is very important. If you intend to use or re-purpose anything that might be mistaken as containing a beverage or foodstuff, it is very important to clearly and loudly mark the container as not being for consumption - a "Poison" label would not be inappropriate, even if some chemicals, such as citric acid or many darkroom chemicals at working strength, are probably less dangerous than the contents of the cupboard where you store cleaning supplies.
Some developers can be damaged if exposed to lots of light. Either keep the bottles in a closed cupboard, or use amber coloured containers, or both..

fabulousrice · Jan 2, 2024

MattKing said:
They are almost impossible to properly clean between uses, and the material they are made of and the corners of the "pleats" tend to enhance, not decrease, the amount of oxygen that permeates through them.
Glass is the best - with good polycone caps - but is harder to handle. 1 and 2 litre glass bottles designed for "growler" (beer) fills are a personal favorite, due at least partly to the additional finger grip.
Otherwise, heavy walled PET bottles - think club soda - are a good choice.
The quality of the caps is very important. If you intend to use or re-purpose anything that might be mistaken as containing a beverage or foodstuff, it is very important to clearly and loudly mark the container as not being for consumption - a "Poison" label would not be inappropriate, even if some chemicals, such as citric acid or many darkroom chemicals at working strength, are probably less dangerous than the contents of the cupboard where you store cleaning supplies.
Some developers can be damaged if exposed to lots of light. Either keep the bottles in a closed cupboard, or use amber coloured containers, or both..

Thank you so much for taking the time. Mad at myself for buying these accordion bottles they weren't cheap, too!
Do you have a link to where I can buy the bottles you recommend and use? Do you add something in the bottles to keep the air out?
What about aluminium bottles? I recently found this brand PATH that sells bottled water in $3.39 aluminium bottles and wondered if I could use that.

MattKing · Jan 2, 2024

Do not use aluminum bottles!
You may find this thread useful: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...rs-for-storing-chemistry.203639/#post-2752089
As for sourcing bottles, it is at least partially location dependent, so sources closer to you, and in the same country as you, would be best.

blee1996 · Jan 3, 2024

For B&W chemical you don't have to re-use diluted working solution often.

- I typically do FX-39 II 1+9 in one shot, so always fresh working solution and no storage needed there.
- Ilford Rapid fixer 1+4, use for 4 rolls of 135/120 and then discard. My tank develop at least 2 rolls at a time, so my fixer is either fresh or just 1 batch old.

Since I do B&W regularly, I hardly ever worry about storage. I'm re-using black 1L plastic bottles that came with Arista branded developer/fixer.

For color chemistry that I need to reuse, then it is a totally different story to store them properly. Then I use aluminum lined wine pouches to keep them entirely light and air tight.

MattKing · Jan 3, 2024

blee1996 said:
Then I use aluminum lined wine pouches to keep them entirely light and air tight.

Most likely you mean mylar lined wine pouches. They look like alumium, but aluminum would not be a good choice.

blee1996 · Jan 3, 2024

MattKing said:
Most likely you mean mylar lined wine pouches. They look like alumium, but aluminum would not be a good choice.

Yes you are right, mylar lined wine pouches. They look shining like aluminum but have no metal parts contacting the chemicals.

Processing Kodachrome as Black and White with Adox FX-39

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