Processing Film With D76 - Question from a Newbie

DH_Studio · Dec 8, 2020

Hey Everyone,

Total greenhorn question here, but I've read a bunch of conflicting opinions and want to avoid screwing up.

I haven't hand processed B+W since my first year of school and have totally forgotten just about everything I learned, including what people are referring to when they're talking about D76 "Stock" solution. I just ordered a pouch of D76 and a one gallon datatainer to store it in. When I mix the chemicals and the recommended amount of water to end up with a full gallon of solution, is that "Stock" - and I then dilute it (most suggestions seem to be 1:1) from there when I process film? Or is "Stock" adding less water to produce a more concentrated solution and ending up with less than a gallon afterwards and diluting as needed?

relistan · Dec 8, 2020

Welcome! Stock solution is what you get when you mix as directed. If you want to use it diluted, it's then diluted further. So if you want 300ml at 1:1 you take 150 from your 1 gallon stock and 150ml of water and dilute it. Or, you use it stock, undiluted, and can replenish it.

DH_Studio · Dec 8, 2020

relistan said:
Welcome! Stock solution is what you get when you mix as directed. If you want to use it diluted, it's then diluted further. So if you want 300ml at 1:1 you take 150 from your 1 gallon stock and 150ml of water and dilute it. Or, you use it stock, undiluted, and can replenish it.

Thanks Relistan! Appreciate it!

So if I'm doing two rolls of 120 in a one quart tank, I'd add 16 ounces of Stock, 16 ounces of water (premixed separately) and then toss it when I'm done or use it for another couple of runs? Saw lots of disagreement about that, too. But a gallon being 128 ounces, using a 32 ounce tank I'd only be able to process 8 runs of film. How long do you suggest holding on to that 1:1 and continuing to use it for (if kept in the dark, sealed bottle with very little room for air)? Or are you in the "use once and toss" camp? Also not totally sure what people consider "once" - is that one day or processing or one pouring into a canister and then, instead of reusing at all for the next canister, trashing it?

relistan · Dec 8, 2020

DH_Studio said:
Thanks Relistan! Appreciate it!

So if I'm doing two rolls of 120 in a one quart tank, I'd add 16 ounces of Stock, 16 ounces of water (premixed separately) and then toss it when I'm done or use it for another couple of runs? Saw lots of disagreement about that, too. But a gallon being 128 ounces, using a 32 ounce tank I'd only be able to process 8 runs of film. How long do you suggest holding on to that 1:1 and continuing to use it for (if kept in the dark, sealed bottle with very little room for air)? Or are you in the "use once and toss" camp? Also not totally sure what people consider "once" - is that one day or processing or one pouring into a canister and then, instead of reusing at all for the next canister, trashing it?

As @michael_r said, the Ilford guide is probably the best place to start for general advice. You can find it here https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-c...rocessing-your-first-black-and-white-film.pdf

I would suggest that for where you are in your development you should not try to reuse any chemistry and just use D-76 1:1 as a one-shot (you can't/shouldn't re-used diluted D-76 anyway). I would also suggest that you only do one roll at a time until you are happy with your development. Otherwise you risk losing a lot of photos by development mistakes. Dilute the D-76 each time you use it, don't dilute the stock all at once. Keep it concentrated at the original amount and dilute down for each development of a roll.

EDIT: to be clear: "Once" means you put it in the tank with the film once, develop the film, and you are done with that developer.

DH_Studio · Dec 8, 2020

michael_r said:
The best thing to do would be to look at the basic guides Ilford has online about developing film. Kodak used to have good stuff to follow as well but I’m not sure if any of it is still available online. Forum recommendations will generally include a lot of conflicting, bad information. Keep it simple.

Yes.

Thanks, Michael.

DH_Studio · Dec 8, 2020

relistan said:
As @michael_r said, the Ilford guide is probably the best place to start for general advice. You can find it here https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-c...rocessing-your-first-black-and-white-film.pdf

I would suggest that for where you are in your development you should not try to reuse any chemistry and just use D-76 1:1 as a one-shot (you can't/shouldn't re-used diluted D-76 anyway). I would also suggest that you only do one roll at a time until you are happy with your development. Otherwise you risk losing a lot of photos by development mistakes. Dilute the D-76 each time you use it, don't dilute the stock all at once. Keep it concentrated at the original amount and dilute down for each development of a roll.

EDIT: to be clear: "Once" means you put it in the tank with the film once, develop the film, and you are done with that developer.

Cool, thanks again. I just did the math and realized that, D76 being so cheap, it's not an issue at all to just use once and toss. For some reason I thought I remembered pouring used D76 back into the bottle and reusing during school but that might not even be accurate.

I ordered a bunch of 16 ounce amber glass bottles and I'll mix up into a gallon and then store it in those, so there's as little air as possible and they only get opened right before use. Then I'll mix into a 32 ounce Datatainer at 1:1, run my reels and dump out when I'm done.

Thanks for the advice!

MattKing · Dec 8, 2020

Here are some Kodak references, in case you would like to see something in non-metric terms
https://125px.com/docs/techpubs/kodak/AJ-3-2016.pdf
and
https://125px.com/docs/techpubs/kodak/j78-2017.pdf
That being said, the Ilford guide is excellent.
As you look through the D-76 data sheet I've posted the link to, you will see instructions about how to re-use stock D-76. That is a reasonable approach, but I would suggest that one-shot use of D-76 1+1 is more reliable for someone starting up again.
Be cautious about the recommended developing times for D-76. Kodak Alaris doesn't have a current data sheet up on the web right now, because this older version requires updating.

cmacd123 · Dec 8, 2020

DH_Studio said:
Cool, thanks again. I just did the math and realized that, D76 being so cheap, it's not an issue at all to just use once and toss. For some reason I thought I remembered pouring used D76 back into the bottle and reusing during school but that might not even be accurate.

Big Users of D-76 do use it full strength, and also use a "replenisher" to keep the results more or less constant. the idea is to add a given amount of replenisher after every roll and keep using the same solution. That method really only makes sense if you are running a LOT of film, and can run tests to adjust the amount of replenisher you use.

Using D-76 diluded one to one with water, and using a fresh mix for each film is likely a safer way when starting out.

one other point, D-76 is approximately equivalent to Ilford ID-11 so any advice that Ilford gives for ID-11 will likly be applicable to D-76. {Almost all manufactures have used the d-76 formula as the basis of the developer that they use in the factory to test film. Many brands sold an equivalent version.}

Bill Burk · Dec 8, 2020

Nothing technical here, just some feelings that I have about D-76

D-76 lasts practically forever in sealed quart plastic bottles. Even half bottles don't seem to go bad on me.
If you want to push your film, say 400 push to 800 frequently, you might want to use D-76 stock because it takes less time (obviously).
When you use it 1:1 your main reason to dump it after each tankful is that you are using near its capacity in the first place.
The best tanks are steel 4-reel 35mm, since they only need a quart of developer to cover 4 rolls.
Nice easy math. At 1:1 with quart bottles, you would open a bottle and pour half in a mixing beaker then add water to make a quart for the tank.
Dump it when you're done, if you have the energy to do another 4 rolls that weekend, you use the rest of the bottle. Or maybe use the rest of the bottle next weekend. Don't worry about it. If in doubt you can dip an end of film in the beaker and watch it turn shiny and gray to know it's good.
If you're down to the last bottle and have a bunch of film and you just want to 'get done with it', you can re-use the developer. You won't get into trouble. Pour the tank into the beaker instead of down the drain and use it on another tankful. Kodak says add 15% time to the re-used developer and I have confirmed with tests that is how much contrast you lose if you don't add time. You can mess up developing time by 15% and not really ruin a negative that would have been good if you developed it right. So don't even worry there. I've gotten away with using the same 1:1 mixed developer on 3 tanks. But it really wasn't worth it, false economy. I did lose contrast because I didn't adjust time.

Juan Valdenebro · Dec 8, 2020

One more paragraph: Kodak recommend to use 240ml of stock D-76 per roll of film, no matter the dilution... That means you'll need a bigger tank for higher dilutions... Some people (read most people, as I did for some time) prefer to use less than 240ml per roll... The film gets developed too, but tone starts to degrade at some point, and less stock solution per film also means your developer won't control chemically development byproducts very well... Even if 240ml are meant to be perfect enough for high key scenes (which require more developer but are not the common case), it doesn't make sense to save a few cents... 240ml per roll work great...
Finally, depending on film, subject, format, scene contrast, and personal preferences, you may prefer stock, 1+1, 1+2 or 1+3: there's no best for everything. When you dilute it, you develop with less solvent action, so the grain's borders are sharper and there's more presence of grain in the final print, and a little more perceived sharpness.
When scanned, film appears with a lot more grain than we get when we print in the darkroom.
Although people use D-76 at higher temperatures, 20 degrees Celsius can be considered the best option: higher temperatures with this MQ type of developer can produce excessive fog.

MattKing · Dec 9, 2020

Old Gregg said:
Why would anyone, ever, like to experience an artificially induced mental disorder? See Oz, pounds, feet, elephant ballsacks or rat tails? Toss it to the trash. The mankind has learned how to measure the world, medieval times are over.

I came into this world when, in North America, ounces were everywhere! Even if parts of my world still insisted that gallons meant 160 oz, quarts meant 40 oz. and a pint meant 20 oz - something that a true pint still means, at least when it comes to beer!
During my school years, attempts were made to teach both systems, and I am able to work comfortably with each.
But those early years matter, as does living next to the only real holdout in an otherwise metric world.
My package of Kodak Dektol is still designed to make up 128 oz, and the gas pumps just a few miles away still dispense gallons.
And my grocery store still advertises sale prices per pound, even while the scale measures in kilograms, just like the small print on the signs.
All of which is a long way to say that I understand where an OP is coming from when he posts about one quart developing tanks, even though I use a litre in the same tank.
Posted from approximately 14.9 furlongs from the border with the USA.

albada · Dec 9, 2020

Old Gregg said:
Why would anyone, ever, like to experience an artificially induced mental disorder? See Oz, pounds, feet, elephant ballsacks or rat tails? Toss it to the trash. The mankind has learned how to measure the world, medieval times are over.

It took me a while to realize that "Oz" refers to ounces, not Australia.
Back to the topic: D-76 has gone bad if its color is yellow. "Color" for the USA; "colour" for everywhere else. (I wish we would use British English as well as metric units here in the US).
Mark Overton

Adrian Bacon · Dec 10, 2020

DH_Studio said:
Thanks Relistan! Appreciate it!

So if I'm doing two rolls of 120 in a one quart tank, I'd add 16 ounces of Stock, 16 ounces of water (premixed separately) and then toss it when I'm done or use it for another couple of runs? Saw lots of disagreement about that, too. But a gallon being 128 ounces, using a 32 ounce tank I'd only be able to process 8 runs of film. How long do you suggest holding on to that 1:1 and continuing to use it for (if kept in the dark, sealed bottle with very little room for air)? Or are you in the "use once and toss" camp? Also not totally sure what people consider "once" - is that one day or processing or one pouring into a canister and then, instead of reusing at all for the next canister, trashing it?

the minimum recommended stock solution per roll is 250ml. You can process 4 rolls per liter of stock with very reliable and consistent results. If you dilute it, you should use it “one-shot”, meaning use it once and dump it. No matter how much you dilute it, you should use the minimum recommended volume of stock, so for 1+1, that would be 250ml of stock, and 250ml of water for a total of 500ml of working solution. This is for one roll. If processing two rolls at a time, that would be 500ml of stock and 500ml of water for a total of 1 liter. As you can imagine, the larger Paterson tanks are better for working with D-76 if diluting.

there is lots of disagreement about how much the minimum volume of D-76 is per roll of film. You can often get by with less, but, results will be a lot less consistent, and can vary from roll to roll, depending on the scene content shot.

138S · Dec 10, 2020

DH_Studio said:
process film?

Let me add some recommendations to start in film processing.

To prevent water drying marks (depending on your tap water salt content), after washing you may make a final rinse with distilled water, you can keep and that distilled water many times, that filnal rinse may contain very diluted Photo-Flo wetting agent (https://www.amazon.com/Kodak-Photo-Flo-200-Solution-16oz/dp/B00K335F6S?language=en_US) but for the moment you can also use a drop of dishwashing detergent in 2L of water, this also helps to remove water drops on film before drying.

For the long term, to avoid dust, you may use a cheap ($50) HEPA air purifier in the room you dry or manipulate film.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 10, 2020

relistan said:
Welcome! Stock solution is what you get when you mix as directed. If you want to use it diluted, it's then diluted further. So if you want 300ml at 1:1 you take 150 from your 1 gallon stock and 150ml of water and dilute it. Or, you use it stock, undiluted, and can replenish it.

+1

138S · Dec 10, 2020

relistan said:
So if you want 300ml at 1:1 you take 150 from your 1 gallon stock and 150ml of water and dilute it.

Let me add, that 1:1 allows an easy temperature adjustment. Say the stock solution has a 21.5ºC temperature (a 1.5ºC excess), then if we mix 150ml of water at 18.5ºC and the final mix will be very close to 20ºC. We may use a microwave ovew or ice cubes to get the right water temperature.

Kino · Dec 10, 2020

I would suggest you use D76 diluted 1:1, one-shot until you get back into the swing of things and become confident of your exposures. Stock D76 can block up the highlights quicker on over exposed film.

Once you are confident of your actions, the World is your Oyster!

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 10, 2020

albada said:
It took me a while to realize that "Oz" refers to ounces, not Australia.
Back to the topic: D-76 has gone bad if its color is yellow. "Color" for the USA; "colour" for everywhere else. (I wish we would use British English as well as metric units here in the US).
Mark Overton

And say Zed, LoL!

pentaxuser · Dec 10, 2020

Andrew O'Neill said:
And say Zed, LoL!

Yes many years ago in the early 60s I heard a U.S. song where the poor unfortunate boy was lamenting his poor record with girls in comparison with his great scholastic achievements and he kept on saying he got "zee, zee in love". I wondered if his choice of females was also to blame for his lamentation as this "zee" might have been a sexually transmitted disease

pentaxuser

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 10, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Yes many years ago in the early 60s I heard a U.S. song where the poor unfortunate boy was lamenting his poor record with girls in comparison with his great scholastic achievements and he kept on saying he got "zee, zee in love". I wondered if his choice of females was also to blame for his lamentation as this "zee" might have been a sexually transmitted disease

pentaxuser

DH_Studio · Dec 10, 2020

Thank you so much for all the replies! SO helpful. I'm going to start with 1:1 and use it one-shot, as suggested, for now until I get a better sense of what I'm doing. I ordered 16 ounce amber glass bottles to break the gallon down into 8 bottles of stock and two 32 ounce datatainers to make the 1:1 and pour into my 32 ounce stainless steel tank. Appreciate all the suggestions and clarification.

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