Processing Color Film / Stainless Steel Tanks / To Tap or Not To Tap?

DH_Studio · Dec 10, 2020

Hi all. Another question about hand processing color in my 32 ounce stainless steel tanks (mainly using Arista Press Kits at the moment).

I've been experiencing these deep dents in the film with every roll. I'm practicing constantly with my rolling as one commenter suggested a week ago but not seeing what I could be doing wrong to cause the issue. The rolls go on with no problem, don't seem to stick together to block development, or anything like that, so wondering if it's something else I'm doing wrong.

After agitation, do you all tap/bang the tank to get rid of air bubbles? In the instructions with the press kit there's no mention of this, and in the video tutorials I've watched they didn't do this, either. But there were invariably comments in the comment section criticizing them for not doing so. I have been using the polished concrete floor to tap the bottom of the tank. I'm not slamming it aggressively or anything like that, but film being gelatin heated up to 102º loaded onto a stainless steel reel, I'm wondering if my tapping it may be causing the damage.

Any advice on whether to tap or not to tap? Is it necessary? Could that be the culprit? Would skipping that step lead to air bubbles in my chemistry?

Thanks!

Sirius Glass · Dec 10, 2020

Tap for air bells [air bubbles]. The dents have something to do with the film getting caught in the grooves. A suggestion: As you wind the film on, if you feel the edge of the film on one side is a little higher than the other rounds, you have something wrong with the way the film is sitting on the reel, then unwind and rewind until the edges of the film is even. You should be able to smoothly pull the film forward and back.

MattKing · Dec 10, 2020

Can we see a close-up of your reels, both empty and with some film in them?
I tap/rap my tanks gently but firmly into a folded cloth or sponge on the counter or on the bottom of the sink. Use the same force that you would use to knock on your friend's door with your knuckles.

pentaxuser · Dec 10, 2020

I cannot see how tapping on the bottom of a SS tank can cause what you are seeing. I can see no way you can tap the tank hard enough to cause an issue with the emulsion. Tapping as you have discovered eliminates the possibility of air bubbles sticking to the film thereby stopping developer getting to a small part of the emulsion and is a precaution that is IMO well worthwhile

It does look as if the loading is the problem but quite what you are doing when loading I cannot suggest. Unless you are an experienced SS reel loader then I'd practice with a film you are prepared to waste and check carefully while you do this what is happening with the film

I am not a SS reel user unfortunately, in terms of having the knowledge to pinpoint what it is that is happening

pentaxuser

DH_Studio · Dec 10, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
Tap for air bells [air bubbles]. The dents have something to do with the film getting caught in the grooves. A suggestion: As you wind the film on, if you feel the edge of the film on one side is a little higher than the other rounds, you have something wrong with the way the film is sitting on the reel, then unwind and rewind until the edges of the film is even. You should be able to smoothly pull the film forward and back.

It always feels like it goes in, no problem, and there's always that little "shuffle" back and forth if I give it a little tug to make sure it's not snagged somehow. Can't figure out what the heck I'm doing wrong. Going to add more photos now.

Sirius Glass · Dec 10, 2020

The film is binding on the reels. What kind of reels are you using? I found the Hewes stainless steel reels were well worth the extra money. You can get them at FreeStyle, one of our sponsors. https://www.freestylephoto.biz/

DH_Studio · Dec 10, 2020

MattKing said:
Can we see a close-up of your reels, both empty and with some film in them?
I tap/rap my tanks gently but firmly into a folded cloth or sponge on the counter or on the bottom of the sink. Use the same force that you would use to knock on your friend's door with your knuckles.

I can see that it's the crossbars that run along the top that the film is crimping over, but that seems to be the way all stainless steel reels are designed, so not sure why these would be different? You can easily see the film bending at the crossbar. Not sure what the story is.

DH_Studio · Dec 10, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
The film is binding on the reels. What kind of reels are you using? I found the Hewes stainless steel reels were well worth the extra money. You can get them at FreeStyle, one of our sponsors. https://www.freestylephoto.biz/

I'm using Arista reels - maybe I need to upgrade to Hewes.

Sirius Glass · Dec 10, 2020

DH_Studio said:
I'm using Arista reels - maybe I need to upgrade to Hewes.

If you got them from FreeStyle, have the receipt and it has not been too long, they will give you your credit for them to trade for the Hewes reels.

MattKing · Dec 10, 2020

I'm wondering if your reels are bent. The film should fit between the straight side spokes and barely contact them.

DH_Studio · Dec 10, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
If you got them from FreeStyle, have the receipt and it has not been too long, they will give you your credit for them to trade for the Hewes reels.

Yeah, they're new, so that shouldn't be an issue.

DH_Studio · Dec 10, 2020

MattKing said:
I'm wondering if your reels are bent. The film should fit between the straight side spokes and barely contact them.

Oh, okay...I wonder. These are definitely making contact, and when I flip them over they are making contact in that way on both sides. If you look at the one shot that shows the full neg you can see it's dented on both sides, otherwise I'd just chalk it up to being inexperienced and jamming it too far to one side and it not sitting evenly between both.

Truzi · Dec 10, 2020

Make sure the film is gently cupped length-wise as you load it in, that will help. If you feel resistance, back up (pull some out) then continue.

I had similar issues with one stainless reel, and it turned out it was very slightly bent. It was very difficult to see - it wouldn't roll straight and I also confirmed with a straight-edge. Just a little bit caused it to bind after a few wraps of film.

However, following advice of someone on this board, I stopped using the clip at the hub of that reel, and had no problems after.

mnemosyne · Dec 17, 2020

When using plastic tanks and reels I would unroll the whole 120 film and separate it from the backing paper, peel off the sticker and only then start to load it in the reel. This worked very well. After switching to stainless tanks and reels, I found it better to not separate the film from the backing paper prior to loading but tearing off just the leading part of the paper until about the point where the actual film starts and then separate the paper from the film while loading the reel. I know this sounds complicated but for me it is MUCH more intuitive and so much easier to get the film properly centered on the reel this way.

That being said I would agree with the others here that either the reel is crooked or some kind of operator error while loading is involved. For 120 I use LPL reels and I do use their huge clamp in the center of the reel to attach the film. The LPL reels are high quality and I can recommend them. I am sure the Hewes 120 reels are also very good as I use their reels exclusively for 35mm.

Although unrelated to your actual problem, I would also like to comment on the initial question (rapping/tapping the tank to dislocate air bubbles). In my experience all a stainless steel tanks requires is one or two easy taps of your hand to the bottom of the tank. I use the flat area created on the thumb/index finger side of my hand when closing a fist. The bubbles will dislocate very easily from the stainless steel reels. I certainly would not recommend to bang the tank on your table/workbench or use any kind of force.

DH_Studio · Dec 17, 2020

Truzi said:
Make sure the film is gently cupped length-wise as you load it in, that will help. If you feel resistance, back up (pull some out) then continue.

I had similar issues with one stainless reel, and it turned out it was very slightly bent. It was very difficult to see - it wouldn't roll straight and I also confirmed with a straight-edge. Just a little bit caused it to bind after a few wraps of film.

However, following advice of someone on this board, I stopped using the clip at the hub of that reel, and had no problems after.

I ordered some Hewes reels, there's a lot more play from left to right and I realized the Arista ones were definitely bent. Super cheap and flimsy.

DH_Studio · Dec 17, 2020

mnemosyne said:
When using plastic tanks and reels I would unroll the whole 120 film and separate it from the backing paper, peel off the sticker and only then start to load it in the reel. This worked very well. After switching to stainless tanks and reels, I found it better to not separate the film from the backing paper prior to loading but tearing off just the leading part of the paper until about the point where the actual film starts and then separate the paper from the film while loading the reel. I know this sounds complicated but for me it is MUCH more intuitive and so much easier to get the film properly centered on the reel this way.

That being said I would agree with the others here that either the reel is crooked or some kind of operator error while loading is involved. For 120 I use LPL reels and I do use their huge clamp in the center of the reel to attach the film. The LPL reels are high quality and I can recommend them. I am sure the Hewes 120 reels are also very good as I use their reels exclusively for 35mm.

Although unrelated to your actual problem, I would also like to comment on the initial question (rapping/tapping the tank to dislocate air bubbles). In my experience all a stainless steel tanks requires is one or two easy taps of your hand to the bottom of the tank. I use the flat area created on the thumb/index finger side of my hand when closing a fist. The bubbles will dislocate very easily from the stainless steel reels. I certainly would not recommend to bang the tank on your table/workbench or use any kind of force.

I just got some much sturdier, higher quality Hewes reels so we'll see how it goes.

Truzi · Dec 18, 2020

DH_Studio said:
I ordered some Hewes reels, there's a lot more play from left to right and I realized the Arista ones were definitely bent. Super cheap and flimsy.

I have a few different brands of reels. If straight and true, all are serviceable. However, the Hewes are great - they practically load themselves, and are quite robust. I still use plastic reels on occasion. It took a bit of practice to get the hang of loading the steel ones, but then I started to prefer them.

Processing Color Film / Stainless Steel Tanks / To Tap or Not To Tap?

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