Processing ancient Verichrome Pan

[Meow7]

Hi all, I recently acquired a Super Ikonta with film in it. I'd like to develop that film... I'm getting a lot of conflicting information, but using HC110 seems to be the recommendation. Some said 1/100 stand for 1.5 hours, dilution B, dilution H? some do it for much less and at what temp? Cold? Thanks!!

 

[Sirius Glass]

I am all ears but I am thinking XTOL or replenished XTOL.

 

[Meow7]

Apparently the HC110 reduces fogging.

 

[Paul Howell]

I've always used HC 110, dilution H, or higher, if I didn't have any on hand and didn't want to buy a bottle then any low fog developer. I have not tired Xtol, but have used the Ansco/Gaf version of D76 which is softer working. Not knowing how old the film is, what ISO it was shot at, how it was metered, I would stand develop, low temp, 60 degrees or so. 1 1/2 to 2 hours, it's a crap shoot. You can also use a restrainer, such as potassium bromide in a 1% solution, 100ml with any developer, might work with HC 110. The idea is to develop to very high contrast then print very low contrast, grade 1 filer as I don't know of any brand that still makes grade 1 paper.

 

[Meow7]

Great! Thank you.

 

[removed account4]

do you have any dektol ?
a photojournalist told me
they used to stand develop
their film 3 mins full strength ( undilute )
the good folks at rockland colloid ( they make liquid light emulsion )
recommend dektol for their product because it works well and not much fog
i've processed film for a few years in dektol ( 35mm - 4x5 ) )
a varity of dilutions, all flavors of films not many issues works well !
my recommendation would be dektol full strength stand develop between 3-4 mins...
YMMV !

have fun !
john

 

[Paul Howell]

I've not tired Dektol, sounds like it may work, in the past Kodak and Ilford and others sold universal developers to used for both film and paper. Only issue is that with such a short development time there may be streaking or uneven development. Another low fog developer is DK50.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

VP was, best as I've every figured out, a consumer version of Plus-X. More exposure latitude, more forgiving of storage conditions. I used some back when and I thought it just fine. Like Ilford and Kentmere.

Just looked in my venerable Kodak Darkroom Data Guide,for VP it suggests D-76@ 5 min, 1:1 @ 9.75 min, Microdol-X, 13.5 min, (with a medium format film????), HC-110 dilution B, 5 minutes. Also times for Polydol, but who uses that?

If that film has been sitting around a few decades, I'd add 10-15% to the times.

 

[MattKing]

Verichrome Pan was most often found in consumer "box" cameras. You could get it for 127, 126, 620, some of the older large roll film sizes and 120, but it wasn't available in 35mm.
As Paul posted, its strength was in exposure latitude and reliability.
It was in essence a dual emulsion film - part fast, part slow, so it performed well in cameras with few controls, in conditions that varied greatly. It wasn't as sharp as Plus-X and could be grainier, but many really liked how it rendered images.
Old Verichrome Pan may have aged unpredictably - a consequence of that dual emulsion design.
I would expect more grain than old Plus-X.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Verichrome Pan was most often found in consumer "box" cameras. You could get it for 127, 126, 620, some of the older large roll film sizes and 120, but it wasn't available in 35mm.
As Paul posted, its strength was in exposure latitude and reliability.
It was in essence a dual emulsion film - part fast, part slow, so it performed well in cameras with few controls, in conditions that varied greatly. It wasn't as sharp as Plus-X and could be grainier, but many really liked how it rendered images.
Old Verichrome Pan may have aged unpredictably - a consequence of that dual emulsion design.
I would expect more grain than old Plus-X.

Yuppers. No 35mm, best as I know.

A dozen years ago Kodak made a color negative film "400 HD". They sold it only in three packs of 24 exposure rolls. Consumer crap, right? The reality is that it was better than every color negative film short of Ektar 100. HD stood for high definition, and the specs were there to confirm that.

Kodak made many, many marketing errors.

 

[Arklatexian]

Verichrome Pan was most often found in consumer "box" cameras. You could get it for 127, 126, 620, some of the older large roll film sizes and 120, but it wasn't available in 35mm.
As Paul posted, its strength was in exposure latitude and reliability.
It was in essence a dual emulsion film - part fast, part slow, so it performed well in cameras with few controls, in conditions that varied greatly. It wasn't as sharp as Plus-X and could be grainier, but many really liked how it rendered images.
Old Verichrome Pan may have aged unpredictably - a consequence of that dual emulsion design.
I would expect more grain than old Plus-X.

I think some of you are mixing this film and Verichrome which was a different film. Verichrome Pan was, like it said, a panchromatic film unlike verichrome which was orthochromatic (not sensitive to "red"). VP was manufactured until films, in general "died", much to the chagrin of many professionals and myself who considered the film almost "unbeatable". Many professionals used the 120 roll film and 4x5 film packs. of this film.......You can have your return of Kodachrome, I had much rather have a return of 120 Verichrome Pan film......Regards!

 

[Arklatexian]

Hi all, I recently acquired a Super Ikonta with film in it. I'd like to develop that film... I'm getting a lot of conflicting information, but using HC110 seems to be the recommendation. Some said 1/100 stand for 1.5 hours, dilution B, dilution H? some do it for much less and at what temp? Cold? Thanks!!

It could work quite nicely in D-76 developer for a normal developing time which you can find in Kodak literature from the late 1900s (1980s and 1990s)........Regards!

 

[MattKing]

I think some of you are mixing this film and Verichrome which was a different film. Verichrome Pan was, like it said, a panchromatic film unlike verichrome which was orthochromatic (not sensitive to "red"). VP was manufactured until films, in general "died", much to the chagrin of many professionals and myself who considered the film almost "unbeatable". Many professionals used the 120 roll film and 4x5 film packs. of this film.......You can have your return of Kodachrome, I had much rather have a return of 120 Verichrome Pan film......Regards!

Verichrome Pan was discontinued in 2002 after about a 45 year run.
Here is the data-sheet with the notice of discontinuance: https://125px.com/docs/film/kodak/f7-Verichrome.pdf
It was as fine grained as Plus-X, but it wasn't very sharp - a fairly thick emulsion being the most likely culprit.
It was mostly sold in sizes other than 120 - 620, 616, 116, 126, 127 etc. - and it was discontinued when many of those sizes were discontinued.
I don't know that it was found in all markets - for example, I don't think it was normally offered in the UK.

 

[removed account4]

I've not tired Dektol, sounds like it may work, in the past Kodak and Ilford and others sold universal developers to used for both film and paper. Only issue is that with such a short development time there may be streaking or uneven development. Another low fog developer is DK50.

yup !

Hi again Meow7
If the old newspaper trick seems crazy ( the person told me about it didn't say they ever had problems but I can understand if you are hesitant, I haven't done it either ) ... instead, just dilute it 1:6 and process it in that ... agitate 1st min then 10s each min like you would any film an any developer in a hand tank. The thing about using Dektol ( or Ansco 130 if you have it ! ) is that it will cut through ( hold back/restrain ) the fog and give you nice contrast. I’ve been processing pretty much only expired film in Ansco 130 like that around 20 years and Dektol for idk a handful of years (5? when I didn’t have the 130) and in GAF universal in the 90s, before that ... You might read about run away contrast, excessive "golf ball sized" grain, no mid tones and all sorts of other stuff, these things are sometimes said by people who have never processed their film in these developers so they don't have 1st hand experience experience.

good luck !
John

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Or, just process it it in the developers and times that I mentioned above. From Kodak. K.I.S.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Verichrome Pan was discontinued in 2002 after about a 45 year run.
Here is the data-sheet with the notice of discontinuance: https://125px.com/docs/film/kodak/f7-Verichrome.pdf
It was as fine grained as Plus-X, but it wasn't very sharp - a fairly thick emulsion being the most likely culprit.
It was mostly sold in sizes other than 120 - 620, 616, 116, 126, 127 etc. - and it was discontinued when many of those sizes were discontinued.
I don't know that it was found in all markets - for example, I don't think it was normally offered in the UK.

Interesting sheet. I sounds like it was Plus-X for all practical reasons except it didn't have a retouching surface! And only available in 120 at the end.

The Features/Benefits columns are exactly the same wordings as Plus-X datasheet of the same year. Oddly, the RMS granularity is a tick better than PX, 9 instead of 10 (same as TMY.) TMX is 8.

 

[MattKing]

And only available in 120 at the end.

Don't forget the 8 inch wide rolls for the Cirkut camera .
I expect that the other practical differences were its latitude, and its ability to withstand sub-optimal storage - think the film shelf behind the cash register at the drugstore or tourist attraction.
I expect that it was the severe decline of that "drugstore" market that really killed Verichrome Pan.

 

[dmr]

My dad used to shoot the original ortho Verichrome, as he liked the tones it produced, and told tales of being p*ssed when Kodak discontinued original Verichrome and original Super-XX about the same time. He swore that Plus-X was NOT a rebadged Verichrome Pan (or v/v).

 

[Meow7]

Welp, I did the HC110 dilution H for 1.5 hours at 60f... nothing, but probably because there were no exposures apart from one which was about 1/3 of a frame. So who knows what happened many years ago!
Thanks for all the input.!