Processed 4 rolls of film, one has a green tint?

tron_ · Mar 1, 2015

Hello, I was wondering if you guys could help me with something that is driving me up the wall.

Earlier today I decided to process 4 rolls of C-41 film in my Jobo CPA2 using Unicolor C-41 chemistry. Here are the films I developed (they were all loaded into the same tank).

x1 roll Kodak Portra 400 (120)
x1 roll Fuji 160NS (120)
x1 roll Fuji Pro 400H (120)
x1 roll Fuji Superia X-Tra (35mm)

When I took the film out of the developing tank, the three rolls of 120 film looked beautiful and how C-41 negatives should look. The roll of Fuji Superia has a vivid green tint to it and I have no idea why?

Any ideas?

The only thing I can think of is a faulty roll of film. Because if it was the chemicals and/or development technique then all the films would have a tint to them correct?

Dr Croubie · Mar 1, 2015

tron_ said:
The only thing I can think of is a faulty roll of film. Because if it was the chemicals and/or development technique then all the films would have a tint to them correct?

That's pretty much it, yeah.
Unless if the dodgy one was at the end of the tank, the Jobo wasn't exactly level, and the chemicals weren't high enough to cover absolutely all of the films completely. If that were true you'd probably have one end of the film OK and the other end (inner of the spiral) getting progressively worse.
A CPA2 has the inbuilt water pump, so the temperature from one end of the tank to the other can't have been different enough to kill one film either.

tron_ · Mar 1, 2015

So weird, I've been doing developing for years and years and have never had anything like this happen. I'm assuming when I scan the green roll it will have a strong red shift.

The green roll was second from the top (cog side). It went [Portra] [Fuji Superia X-Tra] [Fuji 160NS] [Fuji Pro 400H]

snapguy · Mar 1, 2015

Green, green, they say....

Were all the rolls of film shot in the same environment or did you shoot one roll with a huge expanse of red barn dominating the photograph? Have you considered what you did with the film before you put it into the soup may be the problem?

Rudeofus · Mar 2, 2015

There was (there was a url link here which no longer exists) recently where a similar green cast was reported, albeit the whole run was affected, not just one roll out of many. If you can answer these few questions, maybe we can track down the issue:

Do the rolls have significantly different subject matter? Did the Superia roll receive more exposure (brighter subject matter, different exposure, ...)?
Is there some unevenness in development, or is the "green cast" throughout the roll?
Do the frame borders look like what you normally get from Superia X-Tra, or are they visibly darker?
If you repeat the BLIX/wash/STAB procedure with this one roll, does it look any different?

MattKing · Mar 2, 2015

Any of my colour negatives that have been exposed to a light leak tend to have a green cast.

tron_ · Mar 2, 2015

The roll with the green tint was shot by a friend so I'm not sure about the story behind it. It's been in the camera since April (2014) and was just finished up last weekend.

The entire film has an even green tint to it including the leader, border around the sprocket holes, etc. I'll check the boader and see if the color marks are somewhat on. Also I have not tried repeating the blix/wash/stabilize process as I do not want to over-bleach the film.

So strange, I've never seen something like this.

pentaxuser · Mar 2, 2015

tron_ said:
The roll with the green tint was shot by a friend so I'm not sure about the story behind it. It's been in the camera since April (2014) and was just finished up last weekend.

If we can assume that it has never happened to you before with Fuji Superia that was yours and nor has it happened with any of your other films then I'd certainly try and find out from your friend what the circumstances were for the age of the film, his storage and shooting conditions and whether it has ever happened to his films in the past when others developed them

I wouldn't rule out a faulty Fuji film but it wouldn't be my first conclusion

pentaxuser

tron_ · Mar 2, 2015

I shot Fuji Superia for a long time in 35mm and 120 and never have had this happen. I'm asking him about said circumstances now.

For what it's worth it looks like the whole orange mask has gone green.

Rudeofus · Mar 2, 2015

tron_ said:
The entire film has an even green tint to it including the leader, border around the sprocket holes, etc. I'll check the boader and see if the color marks are somewhat on.

That's certainly unusual. A green cast that's strong enough to break through the orange mask must be very, very strong. Was this film exposed to great heat, or did someone look at this film in red dark room light? Or do a long time exposure of the sun?

tron_ said:
Also I have not tried repeating the blix/wash/stabilize process as I do not want to over-bleach the film.

When color developer acts on color negative film, it creates dye as silver becomes developed. In order to obtain the final image, all silver (both developed and undeveloped silver) must be completely removed. Your Unicolor kit does this with a BLIX: some oxidizer (Ferric EDTA) converts metallic silver into silver ions, which are then dissolved by a complexing agent (Thiosulfate). As you can imagine, you can't overdo this: the more completely you remove the silver, the purer your dye image will appear, and you can't remove more silver that what was there to begin with.

Conclusion: there is no such thing as overbleached C-41 film, go at it!

Hint: there are three reasons why I recommend re-BLIXing in such occasions: first, BLIX-kits are prone to these kinds of problem, second: you can't ruin anything by re-BLIXing, third: it's the only hope you have, you can't fix issues with color developer or thermal fogging.

Photo Engineer · Mar 2, 2015

This sounds like safelight fog. It could be other problems, but fog is most likely. Bad keeping is another.

PE

tron_ · Mar 2, 2015

Wait!!

Update, I must have missed it but the leader is actually a normal brown/orange color and as soon as the frames start the film turns green.

Also the film (like the other three rolls) was loaded in a pitch black room without any safe lights.

Rudeofus · Mar 2, 2015

There are two parts of a film leader: the fully exposed part that dangled out of the film canister before it got loaded, and a presumably unexposed part that comes right before the first frame. I assume it is the latter part which you describe as "the leader", and you say that is has the expected orange/brown coloration.

Yet you claim that the rest of the film strip, including borders and sprocket holes, look green. That, together with the above paragraph, suggests to me that development was alright - you got the expected color in a part that we know saw no exposure.

Please confirm that this conforms to what you see on your strips. Can you also give us some idea what type of camera was used for this roll?

Photo Engineer · Mar 2, 2015

Can you scan a few frames which include pictures and what you call leader?

It would help.

PE

tron_ · Mar 2, 2015

Here's a quick photo I snapped of the negative. It's tough to see but the leader of the film (the part just before the frames begin) is the appropriate color but as soon as the frames begin the green tint starts.

And as you can see the whole negative is green from there on out including the border.

Also this was shot using an Olympus OM-1 with a Zuiko 50mm 1.4 I believe.

Thank you all for the responses, pretty crazy mystery!

Rudeofus · Mar 3, 2015

What you call the leader (with normal orange mask) is apparently the rear end of the film, which is the end that never left the canister, and which is therefore the only part which we can safely assume never saw any exposure to light. The green color looks very even, therefore this is no small light leak either. Since the "back end" looks ok, your processing was fine, and that includes your putting the film on the spindle.

The error must have occurred somewhere when the film was in the camera. Someone must have opened the camera back before the film was rewound.

Dr Croubie · Mar 3, 2015

Rudeofus said:
Someone must have opened the camera back before the film was rewound.

That might explain the colour too. Most emulsions that I've seen (when I've cocked up and looked at it in daylight) are a pinky colour, which if light were shining through to the rest of the film spooled up, in negative it would go green.
Just for confirmation, how long is the completely-black, completely exposed section at either end?
I normally get about 6" completely black at the leader (where the S-curve bit is cut out), then maybe a blank frame or two, then photos, then maybe only 2-3" at most blank at the other end*.
If someone's opened the back (like just after finishing the film), then there would be completely-exposed completely black bits at both ends. Does it have this?

*except bulk-loads have completely black bits at both ends.

AgX · Mar 3, 2015

Rudeofus, you got the right idea! The "leader" actually is the tail.

tron_ · Mar 3, 2015

Yes, apologies for mixing up the nomenclature but pictured is the part of the film that never left the canister. It is the portion of the film that is taped to the spool.

I'm not sure how long the ends are as I'm at work right now. I'll check when I get home but if I had to say then yes, 6" at the "start" (where you put the film into the take up spool) and about 3" at the "end".

Thanks again for the replies, glad we are narrowing this down.

Photo Engineer · Mar 3, 2015

The film was totally fogged somehow.

PE

pentaxuser · Mar 3, 2015

Time to speak to your friend, I feel, as I mentioned

pentaxuser

tron_ · Mar 5, 2015

Well I spoke to my friend and he said he may have pulled up on the rewind knob while rewinding the film back into the canister and therefore exposing the film a bit. He said it isn't likely but is definitely a possibility. Everything else looks correct, I did a test scan of the negatives from my roll and they turned out perfect so I'm leaning towards it being a camera error.

AgX · Mar 5, 2015

I can't imagine light entering alongside a rewind axle. And even if it did there is still some way to hit the film.

tron_ · Mar 5, 2015

AgX said:
I can't imagine light entering alongside a rewind axle. And even if it did there is still some way to hit the film.

He meant when he pulled the rewind knob it may have been that the back popped open slightly and as he was rewinding the film it passed through the area with the "light leak".

Not sure if that makes snese but I'm really at a loss for what it could have been.

railwayman3 · Mar 5, 2015

I'm sure it is light fogging, particularly as it extends the whole width of the film. I've had a similar effect when the back of the camera was accidently opened very briefly while rewinding, and I assumed that the greenish color was a result of light penetrating through the base of the film.

Processed 4 rolls of film, one has a green tint?

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