Problems with reversal processing lith film

[Nicholas Lindan]

I tried DIY reversal processing for the first time and got nowhere - problems with the bleach. The process was:

• Lithographic film: Arista something-or-other
• D-72 developer: 3 minutes, 1:2 dilution
• Stop bath
• Dichromate bleach: 0.5% P. Dichromate, conc. Sulfuric Acid (0.5% at first, later increased to 1.5%)
• Clearing bath: 5% S. Sulfite, 1 minute
• D-72 developer
• Waste Basket

The inspiration came from Dead Link Removed though the bleach dilutions came from another web site.

The bleach seemed to do nothing.

I was making test strips, and before going into the bleach the middle exposures on the strip looked about right for a conventional print, the test patches ranged from no image to a heavy black.

Putting the film in the bleach turned the film back to a uniform milky film color, there was no image. I kept it in the bleach for 10 minutes, still no joy.

Re-developing the resultant film produced a jet black film with only the faintest hint of something - image, abrasion, thumbprint ??? - at one end of the strip.

The sulfuric acid was a product sold locally for cleaning drains. I also tried battery acid (acid to put in batteries, not acid taken from a battery). Same result in both cases. I upped the bleach and dichromate to ~1.5%, nothing. I tried adding extra acid (on the theory that it wasn't conc. but ~20%), more nothing.

The obvious conclusion is the film wasn't exposed/developed long enough, but if I gave it any more ... ????

Will try again tonight.

Has anyone else gone through this.

 

[Cor]

Nicholas,

If you have access to the Post Factory Journal Of Photography (see http://www.alternativephotography.com/books/js_post_factory.html ), there has been published a series of articles by Liam Lawless on reversal processing of lith film, I tried it and it worked fine, although AFAIK I could only translate about 10 steps on a Stouffer (5 stops). Perhaps you can search the Alt Photo Archives,

Good luck,

Best,

Cor

Btw see also : http://www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art001.html

I tried DIY reversal processing for the first time and got nowhere - problems with the bleach. The process was:

• Lithographic film: Arista something-or-other
• D-72 developer: 3 minutes, 1:2 dilution
• Stop bath
• Dichromate bleach: 0.5% P. Dichromate, conc. Sulfuric Acid (0.5% at first, later increased to 1.5%)
• Clearing bath: 5% S. Sulfite, 1 minute
• D-72 developer
• Waste Basket

The inspiration came from Dead Link Removed though the bleach dilutions came from another web site.

The bleach seemed to do nothing.

I was making test strips, and before going into the bleach the middle exposures on the strip looked about right for a conventional print, the test patches ranged from no image to a heavy black.

Putting the film in the bleach turned the film back to a uniform milky film color, there was no image. I kept it in the bleach for 10 minutes, still no joy.

Re-developing the resultant film produced a jet black film with only the faintest hint of something - image, abrasion, thumbprint ??? - at one end of the strip.

The sulfuric acid was a product sold locally for cleaning drains. I also tried battery acid (acid to put in batteries, not acid taken from a battery). Same result in both cases. I upped the bleach and dichromate to ~1.5%, nothing. I tried adding extra acid (on the theory that it wasn't conc. but ~20%), more nothing.

The obvious conclusion is the film wasn't exposed/developed long enough, but if I gave it any more ... ????

Will try again tonight.

Has anyone else gone through this.

 

[Ian Grant]

If you have water with a high Chlorine level the bleach will act as a "Re-Halogenating Bleach" so your original negative image formed by the first developer will Re-develop in the 2nd Developer.

I'd suggest a distilled or de-ionised water wash or rinse after the first stop-bath, and make the bleach up with similar water. You may find that using boiled water is sufficient. Boiling may remove all the Chlorine. Chlorine levels in tap water tend to be higher at this time of year.

Ian

 

[nworth]

My guess is that the sulfuric acid was contaminated. You can't be sure of things sold for other purposes. Fresh battery acid (amount adjusted for concentration) should work, however. You could try using about 65 g/l of sodium bisulfate instead of the liquid acid. I understand that the material called pHMinus, sold for swimming pool use, works.

 

[dancqu]

...published a series of articles by Liam Lawless on reversal
processing of lith film, I tried it and it worked fine, although
AFAIK I could only translate about 10 steps on a Stouffer
(5 stops). Perhaps you can search the Alt Photo
Archives, Good luck, Best, Cor

Liam's treatment of the subject is at
www.unblinkingeye.com . From Articles
look for Less is More. Another global contrast
control technique.

Translate? I take it that using a step wedge
no lower contrast than 10 steps.
Is that correct? Dan

 

[Cor]

Liam's treatment of the subject is at
www.unblinkingeye.com . From Articles
look for Less is More. Another global contrast
control technique.

Translate? I take it that using a step wedge
no lower contrast than 10 steps.
Is that correct? Dan

Hi Dan,

I do not have my results in front of me, but I recall I first tested the system by projecting a Stoufer step wedge (0.15 density steps) in my enlarger on lith film and reverse process it. The resulting positive image had 10 discernible steps. In hindsight that is perhaps not so bad, because that means you could "translate" a density range of 1.5?


Best,

Cor

 

[jfish]

Am I understanding correctly that you are using lith (ortho, high contrast, line) film and trying to make continuous tone positives? It's been quite a while since I did them but I seem to remember just developing the line film, after exposure under an enlarger, in Dektol paper developer. Seems it could be done the same way if shot through the camera, but rmmber its been about 20 years since I've done any line reversal so my memory may be very off on that last one.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Follow up - problem resolution.

The problem was underexposure. I was exposing so the film coming out of the first developer looked like a print. I found that I had to expose the film so that in the first developer it was darned near to pure jet-black. Then when it went into the bleach the image reappeared with the blacks turning to clear film and the highlights remaining milky. There was very little latitude in exposure - a half stop off and the exposure was ruined.

I also ran around in circles reading the test strips backwards - wasn't thinking but going on autopilot: I used the underexposed end for the start of the 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 second (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 stops) test sequence and as a result, picking the second from the end, was exposing for 4 seconds instead of 32.

 

[dancqu]

Hi Dan,

I do not have my results in front of me, but I recall I first
tested the system by projecting a Stoufer step wedge
(0.15 density steps) in my enlarger on lith film and
reverse process it.
The resulting positive image had 10 discernible steps.
In hindsight that is perhaps not so bad, because that
means you could "translate" a density range of 1.5?

So started with a .05 to 3.05 density step wedge 'negative'
and at end had 10 of the 21 steps. The range of density
bespeaks of a high contrast 'negative'. Which steps
were involved. You did employ Liam's method? Dan