Problems with exposure or developing

[maciek]

I had two C-41 rolls developed recently and one of the had basically nothing on it, completely empty - film edge markings looked good, the other one was very pale, the edge markings as well, barely visible.

Can someone tell me what could be the cause of it?

 

[darkosaric]

Hi maciek,

can you give some more info: you developed the films or lab? They were shoot on the same camera? Films are new, both same brand?
Post some pictures of both films if possible.

Regards,

 

[maciek]

Hi,

No, the blank one was Portra 400, the other one was Portra 160, they were new, probably about a year till expiration. Developed by another person probably in Jobo processor.
Both shot using the same camera.

 

[Rudeofus]

If edge markings are fine, development was fine. If the frames are still blank, film was underexposed or unexposed for whatever reason. If both frames and edge marking are pale, then something must have gone wrong in the lab.

 

[maciek]

If edge markings are fine, development was fine. If the frames are still blank, film was underexposed or unexposed for whatever reason. If both frames and edge marking are pale, then something must have gone wrong in the lab.

It's completely blank though, you can't even see any difference in transparency. Shouldn't there be difference even if the exposure was wrong?

 

[bdial]

The usual cause of something like this is that the film never advanced through the camera. That's usually caused by a loading error, for example the sprocket teeth were not engaged in the holes.

Generally even severe under exposure would show faint images.

After loading, do you snug the rewind knob and verify that it turns as you advance?

 

[Rudeofus]

It's completely blank though, you can't even see any difference in transparency. Shouldn't there be difference even if the exposure was wrong?

If the exposure if off by more than four or five stops, you will end up with 100% blank frames. In reality, it's more likely that your shutter never opened, so I suspect some camera defect or malfunction. I've had this once with my Mamiya RZ67, its battery was dead and it fired all shots with 1/400 s. Dependent on light situation I had completely blank frames and some underexposed ones on that one roll.

All this still doesn't explain the one roll with pale edge markings, though, but maybe your lab can give you an explanation.

 

[pentaxuser]

This other person with a Jobo presumably is not a lab but an amateur in a home darkroom? The first film with good edge markings but nothing else suggests as others have said that the C41 process was good and problem lies elsewhere so if the second film was developed at the same time by the same individual and resulted in faint image and faint edge marking then it suggests that the second C41 process wasn't good hence my question about the person with a Jobo.

I cannot make the good edge markings and faint edge markings on two films add up with no image and then faint images.



pentaxuser

 

[maciek]

If the exposure if off by more than four or five stops, you will end up with 100% blank frames. In reality, it's more likely that your shutter never opened, so I suspect some camera defect or malfunction. I've had this once with my Mamiya RZ67, its battery was dead and it fired all shots with 1/400 s. Dependent on light situation I had completely blank frames and some underexposed ones on that one roll.

All this still doesn't explain the one roll with pale edge markings, though, but maybe your lab can give you an explanation.

I used the film that came out blank at the same time i used B&W film that came out good, i just switched the backs when i needed color, i suppose it's possible that something went wrong.

 

[maciek]

This other person with a Jobo presumably is not a lab but an amateur in a home darkroom? The first film with good edge markings but nothing else suggests as others have said that the C41 process was good and problem lies elsewhere so if the second film was developed at the same time by the same individual and resulted in faint image and faint edge marking then it suggests that the second C41 process wasn't good hence my question about the person with a Jobo.

I cannot make the good edge markings and faint edge markings on two films add up with no image and then faint images.

pentaxuser

He is an amateur but his processing has been good before, it looks like i'll have to ask if something went wrong.

 

[Rudeofus]

I used the film that came out blank at the same time i used B&W film that came out good, i just switched the backs when i needed color, i suppose it's possible that something went wrong.

Is there a chance these two films weren't the same ISO speed and you adjusted exposure the wrong way? I did this once with TMAX100 and Provia 400X, and ended up with completely blank Provia slides, except for the edge markings, of course.

 

[maciek]

Is there a chance these two films weren't the same ISO speed and you adjusted exposure the wrong way? I did this once with TMAX100 and Provia 400X, and ended up with completely blank Provia slides, except for the edge markings, of course.

It's possible, at this point it's hard to say. I've noticed that once the extension tubes for RZ67 didn't connect properly, and the shutter worked at 1/400 only and i've got some blank frames on the B&W film because of that.

 

[Rudeofus]

It's possible, at this point it's hard to say. I've noticed that once the extension tubes for RZ67 didn't connect properly, and the shutter worked at 1/400 only and i've got some blank frames on the B&W film because of that.

Since you seem to have an RZ67 like me, there are a few things you can look out for:

1. If you suspect that your shutter is off: take off the film back, switch the knob for rotating the film back to "M" and select some exposure time around 1s. If you fire the shutter, you should see it open and close. If it doesn't open, or if it opens for shorter time than expected, then you know something is off.
2. An RZ67 shouldn't fire with the dark slide in. If it does, get it fixed.
3. If you use the prism finder and auto exposure, make sure that film speed is dialed in correctly on your film magazine. With the classic view finder, this dial is ignored.
4. You do know how to check the battery of your RZ67 ? RZ67 act up like angry, tired toddlers if their batteries are weak ...

 

[maciek]

Since you seem to have an RZ67 like me, there are a few things you can look out for:

1. If you suspect that your shutter is off: take off the film back, switch the knob for rotating the film back to "M" and select some exposure time around 1s. If you fire the shutter, you should see it open and close. If it doesn't open, or if it opens for shorter time than expected, then you know something is off.
2. An RZ67 shouldn't fire with the dark slide in. If it does, get it fixed.
3. If you use the prism finder and auto exposure, make sure that film speed is dialed in correctly on your film magazine. With the classic view finder, this dial is ignored.
4. You do know how to check the battery of your RZ67 ? RZ67 act up like angry, tired toddlers if their batteries are weak ...

Thanks that's good advice. I've just noticed that the mirror up socket on the lens was sticking out a bit, and the shutter functioned in 1/400 only i think. That probably explains the blank film. What a pain in the ass.
I switched the battery just recently when the shutter wouldn't function properly, i had to push the button multiple times, it works fine now with a new battery.

 

[Rudeofus]

Thanks that's good advice. I've just noticed that the mirror up socket on the lens was sticking out a bit, and the shutter functioned in 1/400 only i think. That probably explains the blank film. What a pain in the ass.

IIRC, the RZ67 was aimed at professional studios, where photographers dialed in their system for a specific portrait situation once, and then probably didn't change the setup (camera, lens, filters, flash, ...) over many years. It's only now that these cameras are available to amateurs like us, who haul these cameras around and swap lenses multiple times, that these sorts of usability problems become apparent.

I switched the battery just recently when the shutter wouldn't function properly, i had to push the button multiple times, it works fine now with a new battery.

This is exactly what I had when my camera's battery ran low. Not only did I have to fire multiple times to get a shot, most shots were badly underexposed because the shutter wouldn't stay open for the full time, especially with exposures longer than 1/30 s.

 

[maciek]

Apparently both films were developed at the same time, so... maybe there was something wrong with the film? Badly stored?

 

[Rudeofus]

As an engineer I can tell you that you can't fix two problems at once. First, try to make sure that your camera exposes the way you want, which may or may not be what you set it to (use a polaroid back+film if you can), then try to figure out why your developed negatives end up pale (if they still do). This will cost you a few rolls at worst (don't use the most expensive film on these tests), but it will teach you a lot about your camera and the development process.

If you do these tests, shoot some non-personal subject matter and be prepared to post some sample scans. These can help us pin down potential developer issues.