Problems with Efke IR820

digic · May 4, 2012

Hi. Today I shot a roll of Efke IR820 film using an R72 filter, and exposing by setting my light meter to ISO 3.
I developed the roll in Kodak HC-110 Dilution B, stopped using water, and fixed for 7 minutes with Ilford Rapid Fixer.

The roll came out blank. I did one or two shots exposing as iso 100 without a filter on, but these were blank as well...

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 4, 2012

Are the edge markings where the frame numbers of the film show still visible?

digic · May 4, 2012

Yes.

Forgot to say I developed for five minutes.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 4, 2012

If you exposed to EI 3, you should have gotten something. Developing is OK, because the edge markings show.

Did you compensate for filter factor? R72 is a lot of stops to compensate for, isn't it?

digic · May 4, 2012

I read online that EI 3 would be about correct for R72 as is, and then compensating for reciprocity failiure in addition to that..

Iso 100 without filter, R72 loses you 5 stops, so iso 1.5-3 should be right..

Light overcast, exposed i.e. at f/5.6 and 4 seconds (8 seconds with reciprocity failiure taken into account)

keithwms · May 4, 2012

Don't even both to shoot IR with this film in overcast weather. You need direct sunlight. Wait for a bright, clear sunny day, and with a 72 filter I'd use anywhere from 5-8 stops of filter compensation. In overcast weather... forget it, shoot with a red filter or don't shoot at all.

I keep ISO at 100 or so and dial in the compensation by adjusting the time of the exposure. Bracket heavily... don't screw around with +/-1, its pointless. You need to bracket +/-3 with this film and filter combo.

That you got a clear frame even without a filter, though... that worries me about gear or metering procedures. How long were those exposures without the filter?

digic · May 4, 2012

Something along the lines of 1/125..

Exposed it as ISO 100 without filter.

Do my developing procedures seem right?

Thomas Bertilsson · May 4, 2012

Does 'normal' film in the same camera come out OK?

digic · May 4, 2012

Yup. I dont even have a count of how many rolls I've shot with it.

Thomas Bertilsson · May 4, 2012

Very interesting.

Somehow you have the edge markings, which means your process is OK.

But somehow you have nothing at all in the image area, in spite of exposing it in a fairly normal way.
Have you tried bracketing when you shoot without filter? Like expose one 'normal' at EI 100, then at 50, then at 25, 12, 6, 3, 2, 1... Just double with every frame; use f-stops until you run out of stops, and begin to double the time. (Want to avoid reciprocity problems).
Just to see if you're able to get something. It seems to me the film's sensitivity is way off somehow. Because you still get the edge markings, the factory was obviously able to get that exposed onto the film strip somehow, so there is film sensitivity. It's just a question of how much.

I know the film is expensive to experiment with.

Brian C. Miller · May 4, 2012

keithwms said:
Don't even both to shoot IR with this film in overcast weather. You need direct sunlight.

I've shot Konica 750 in total deep forest shade and had overexposed frames. You just can't tell with infrared light.

Digic, something went wrong with your development process. At f/5.6 for four seconds(!) you should have "bullet proof" exposures. Black. Totally black. Just try it again.

Normally I shoot four brackets, for +/-1 and +/-2. Usually the N exposure is right on the money.

digic · May 4, 2012

I'll get another roll and give that a shot at bracketing. I'll note the exposure values for each frame respectively. Thanks for all the help, guys.

keithwms · May 4, 2012

Brian C. Miller said:
I've shot Konica 750 in total deep forest shade and had overexposed frames. You just can't tell with infrared light.

I just wouldn't recommend spotty light as a good starting point for IR film. Sunny 16 light will give the most easily reproducible results.

~~~

Anyway, it does seem that something else wasn't right, besides exposure....

Photo Engineer · May 4, 2012

Guys;

Note that the EI 100 exposure with no filter was blank as well. Doesn't this indicate a more fundamental problem to you? It sounds like a complete camera failure in spite of other evidence.

PE

djhopscotch · May 4, 2012

Did you mistake your lens cap for the R72 filter?

pentaxuser · May 4, 2012

digic said:
I'll get another roll and give that a shot at bracketing. .

Until you work out what the failure is I wouldn't bother to waste another film. PE has made the most important comment. There is something wrong with the camera such as the film wasn't being wound on. Nothing wrong with your processing, light conditions, bracketing etc. EI 3 is about right and should have produced something.

pentaxuser

Thomas Bertilsson · May 4, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
Guys;

Note that the EI 100 exposure with no filter was blank as well. Doesn't this indicate a more fundamental problem to you? It sounds like a complete camera failure in spite of other evidence.

PE

OP has testified the camera works fine with other films.
Perhaps run a roll of regular film through it to see?

eclarke · May 4, 2012

I use a lot of this film and an 8 second exposure at 5.6 might fly at high noon with bright sun but not on an overcast day..Day in , day out, my exposures are from 30 seconds, f22.5, to around 2 minutes. My metering method seems to never fail me. I use iso 320 (because it is where Ilike my meter set for the other films I use) and I measure the EV of the green I would like to affect. At EV 9, I'm at 2 minutes..at EV 15 I'm at 40 seconds..EV16.5...20 seconds. I used a couole humdred sheets last year and I don't believe I missed any exposures..

DWThomas · May 4, 2012

I've only shot one roll of the EFKE material, but ISO 3 exposures produced at least something for me. You haven't said what camera or what size film -- any chance the film didn't feed (35 mm) or was flipped (120)? It seems unlikely given that you've used the camera before, but there has to be some explanation. I'd think shooting without the filter should have produced something other than complete blank if the emulsion was in view of the lens, even if the settings were way off.

Problems with Efke IR820

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