Problems with E-72

Jonathan Daves-Brody · Jan 16, 2023

Hi, all. Fairly rank beginner here, and for various reasons I decided to take the DIY approach and mix up my own E72 for prints. I worked through all the normal darkroom issues and managed to reliable and reproducably turn out prints with which I was happy. It seemed to act the way it was supposed to - about 20-30 seconds for the first image to appear, and I typically left it in the developer for about 5 minutes for full development. Took a two month break, mixed up a fresh batch, and it's acting WAY differently - even with test strips exposed to full daylight, it takes about a minute for the exposed end to show any black at all, and it never gets anything beyond darkish grey. Mixed up another batch in case I screwed something up, and it acted the same. Does anybody have any ideas? I'm using this recipe from the Darkroom COokbook (for 1 liter)

0.3 g phenidone
45 g sodium sulfite
19 g ascorbic acid
1.9 g potassium bromide

Thanks!

John Wiegerink · Jan 16, 2023

Jonathan Daves-Brody said:
Hi, all. Fairly rank beginner here, and for various reasons I decided to take the DIY approach and mix up my own E72 for prints. I worked through all the normal darkroom issues and managed to reliable and reproducably turn out prints with which I was happy. It seemed to act the way it was supposed to - about 20-30 seconds for the first image to appear, and I typically left it in the developer for about 5 minutes for full development. Took a two month break, mixed up a fresh batch, and it's acting WAY differently - even with test strips exposed to full daylight, it takes about a minute for the exposed end to show any black at all, and it never gets anything beyond darkish grey. Mixed up another batch in case I screwed something up, and it acted the same. Does anybody have any ideas? I'm using this recipe from the Darkroom COokbook (for 1 liter)

0.3 g phenidone

45 g sodium sulfite

19 g ascorbic acid

1.9 g potassium bromide

Thanks!

Ascorbic acid might have went bad? That's the only thing I can think of, but I'm sure somebody here will have a better idea than I do.

grain elevator · Jan 16, 2023

Jonathan Daves-Brody said:
Hi, all. Fairly rank beginner here, and for various reasons I decided to take the DIY approach and mix up my own E72 for prints. I worked through all the normal darkroom issues and managed to reliable and reproducably turn out prints with which I was happy. It seemed to act the way it was supposed to - about 20-30 seconds for the first image to appear, and I typically left it in the developer for about 5 minutes for full development. Took a two month break, mixed up a fresh batch, and it's acting WAY differently - even with test strips exposed to full daylight, it takes about a minute for the exposed end to show any black at all, and it never gets anything beyond darkish grey. Mixed up another batch in case I screwed something up, and it acted the same. Does anybody have any ideas? I'm using this recipe from the Darkroom COokbook (for 1 liter)

0.3 g phenidone

45 g sodium sulfite

19 g ascorbic acid

1.9 g potassium bromide

Thanks!

Your stated recipe and perhaps your brew is lacking the accelerator (alkali, I think it's Sodium Carbonate in E72)!

Philippe-Georges · Jan 16, 2023

I have been using E-72 since the demise of AGFA, as a substitute for their Neutol Plus, and have never encountered any issues as you do.

But what stroke me is the different formula you have, yours lacks the Sodium Carbonate, which Chris Patton's formule has, and no Potassium Bromide (K Br).

By way of info, I give you in attachment the original formula as published by Chris Patton.

I add 10 cc of a saturated K Br mixture per 1l stock solution.

albada · Jan 16, 2023

Welcome to Photrio!

As others have said, your formula is lacking carbonate. The formula specifies 90 g/L of sodium carbonate monohydrate (= 77 g/L anhydrous). Without it, the developer will be very slow, as you discovered.

Mark

Bob AZ · Jan 17, 2023

Here's an option using metol instead of phenidone:

Metol 3 grams = 46.3 grains = approx 5 ml

Sodium sulfite 45 grams = 1.587 ounces

Ascorbic Acid 19 grams = 293.2 grains = approx 20 ml

Sodium Carbonate Monohydrate 90 grams = 3.175 ounces

Potassium Bromide 1.9 grams = 29.32 grains

Water to fill 1 liter

Philippe-Georges · Jan 17, 2023

This is what I found on Wikipedia about Metol, and the reason why I switched to Neutol Plus, and later, E-72 as a safer substitute for plain Neutol or Dektol...

"...Because it has been in use for this purpose for over 100 years, and often by amateur photographers, there is a substantial body of evidence regarding the health problems that contact with Metol can cause. These are principally local dermatitis of the hands and forearms. There is also some evidence of sensitization dermatitis, in which repeated exposure triggers a chronic condition that is resistant to medication. The use of Metol in highly caustic solutions and the presence of other materials in darkrooms that have been implicated in dermatitis—such as hexavalent chromium salts—may exacerbate some health impacts..."

Doremus Scudder · Jan 17, 2023

Yes, indeed, Metol can cause contact dermatitis. The effect is cumulative and the dermatitis can show up after even long periods of use without symptoms. Once acquired, the sensitivity does not get better.

That said, the solution to the problem is easy; avoid exposure. Fortunately, this doesn't mean you can't use Metol in your developers. It simply means that you should use gloves, tongs, etc. and not let the Metol-containing solutions come into contact with your skin. I don't think I've touched a drop of developer with my bare hands for decades...

Best,

Doremus

albada · Jan 17, 2023

Doremus Scudder said:
I don't think I've touched a drop of developer with my bare hands for decades...

Or fixer.
Wearing nitrile gloves is a habit for me, so much so that I don't notice I'm wearing them.

Mark

Jonathan Daves-Brody · Jan 17, 2023

Thank you all! Yep, copied it out wrong. On the one hand, I feel pretty stupid about not noticing that during the MANY times I double-checked - but on the other hand, what a cheap way of drilling in quickly learned facts about the different parts of this thing. Got it!

albada · Jan 17, 2023

Jonathan Daves-Brody said:
Thank you all! Yep, copied it out wrong. On the one hand, I feel pretty stupid about not noticing that during the MANY times I double-checked - but on the other hand, what a cheap way of drilling in quickly learned facts about the different parts of this thing. Got it!

Many of us can relate. I seem to learn best the hard way. For example, that's how I learned to not expose the wrong side of the paper.

Philippe-Georges · Jan 18, 2023

Doremus Scudder said:
Yes, indeed, Metol can cause contact dermatitis. The effect is cumulative and the dermatitis can show up after even long periods of use without symptoms. Once acquired, the sensitivity does not get better.

That said, the solution to the problem is easy; avoid exposure. Fortunately, this doesn't mean you can't use Metol in your developers. It simply means that you should use gloves, tongs, etc. and not let the Metol-containing solutions come into contact with your skin. I don't think I've touched a drop of developer with my bare hands for decades...

Best,

Doremus

Or just simply don't use Metol, and Hydrochinon...

Besides, what about the environmental impact of these chemicals?
For me, this is a permanent uneasiness, but I do my best to handle photo chemicals with a healthy dose of care and respect for the environment.

relistan · Jan 18, 2023

albada said:
Many of us can relate. I seem to learn best the hard way. For example, that's how I learned to not expose the wrong side of the paper.

I have also learned this lesson! It turns out one side works better than the other

Problems with E-72

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