problems with 35mm ss reels

darinwc · Apr 1, 2009

I just developed 4 rolls if 35mm film using stainless steel reels and a tall stainless steel tank.

I had a terrible time getting the film to stay straight between the wire spirals.
I ended up with multiple placed where the film was buckled the wrong way. No matter how hard I tried to straighten the film, it would not load correctly. I eventually gave up and developed the roll as-is. I ended up with some uneven developing and some spots where the mask did not get washed because the film was together.

I dont remember having this much of a problem last time I developed film. (4-5 years ago)

Any help would be appreciated.

Ian Grant · Apr 1, 2009

There's a knack to loading them, you need to practice with a scrap film in daylight. I used to pinch the film by its edges causing a slight bow as I fed it into the reel. Once it goes wrong you need to start again from the beginning, you'll soon get the feel for it again.

Ian

2F/2F · Apr 1, 2009

darinwc said:
I just developed 4 rolls if 35mm film using stainless steel reels and a tall stainless steel tank.

I had a terrible time getting the film to stay straight between the wire spirals.
I ended up with multiple placed where the film was buckled the wrong way. No matter how hard I tried to straighten the film, it would not load correctly. I eventually gave up and developed the roll as-is. I ended up with some uneven developing and some spots where the mask did not get washed because the film was together.

I dont remember having this much of a problem last time I developed film. (4-5 years ago)

Any help would be appreciated.

If that ever happens again, you don't have to continue with processing. You can stash your film in the tank or an *opaque* film cartridge and straighten out or replace your reel (or take the film to a lab).

It should roll fairly easily unless the reel has been tweaked. Tweaked reels that give you trouble, even if it is just every now and then, are not worth keeping, IMO. (Make sure to recycle them and not toss them.) Here is what works for me: If you are right handed, hold the film that is being fed in your right hand between thumb and fingers so that it slightly bends inward toward the web of your thumb. Keep your right hand relaxed and in one position: riding the outer edge of the reel. The right hand does not need to move at all once you have used it to catch the film on the core of the reel. All it needs to do is ride the rail, keep the film curved a bit, and thus guide the film as it is pulled onto the reel by the left hand; not actually place the film onto the reel. Use your left hand to roll the reel. I also use the index finger of my left hand to ride the emulsion of the already-rolled film to make sure it is smooth and not collapsed, mangled, or has jumped a turn. (Reverse the hands if you are left handed.) None of my 35mm reels have clips. I prefer this, actually.

Curt · Apr 1, 2009

Is the reel in perfect condition? If they are dropped or get bent they can be impossible to load. What film were you using, was it a 36 exp. roll? 220 SS reels used to give me headaches. When putting the film under the clip be sure to get it straight so you get going right from the start.

waileong · Apr 1, 2009

Try loading them again in daylight. If you can do them in daylight, then the problem is your technique. If it's difficult even in daylight, you may need new reels.

Wade D · Apr 1, 2009

I just started using SS reels and there is a learning curve over using plastic reels. Practice in daylight using ruined film will help. The SS reels require a slight bow to the film which gets some getting used to. After a while you can feel when it is going in right. Good luck and don't give up on the SS reels.

Mike Richards · Apr 1, 2009

I always use a film picker to pull out a little leader, and then trim the leader in a trapezoid shape. This can be done in the light, and makes the leader easier to clip into the center of the reel once you are in the dark or a changing bag. Be careful not to pinch or bow the film too much once you get it started -- just guide the film with the slightest tension. Once loaded, you can feel the reel edges to make sure the end of a (36 exposure) film is in the last spiral groove on both sides. Otherwise, you need to re-roll it. And I agree with the comments about bent or damaged reels. I've never been able to straighten one satisfactorily. If someone has a method for doing this, I'd like to know it.

Steve Roberts · Apr 1, 2009

What's the fascination with stainless steel reels? I know that they can supposedly be loaded wet, which may be important for those with a high film throughput, but from the frequent postings I've seen on the subject of loading the things they seem to be a retrograde step from the convenience of a plastic reel in a Johnson's or Paterson's bakelite tank.
No doubt the error of my ways will be pointed out !

Steve

bsdunek · Apr 1, 2009

I find it easier if I don't use the clip at the center of the reel. If the film is not perfectly centered you'll probably have problems. If the film is not clipped, it will find it's alignment. Just hold your finger on it until you get the first turn, then let it float. Otherwise I all the above advice is correct.

Christopher Walrath · Apr 1, 2009

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Ok. Here's two little tricks that have not been mentioned. The clip. The ends of the wire a lot of times are not bent the whole way around the inner mast making it difficult for the film to stay in the clip. Take a small pair of needle nose pliers and crimp the wire further around so that it lays down and is no longer causing that pinch angle and the film will feed further into the clip.

Also check for slack as you load onto the reel. About every half turn, slide the film in your film hand back and forth slightly. The film IN the reel should sldie about a quarter inch freely in each direction. If it does then continue. If it is tight then you know you need to reload. You now also know the misload is in the last half turn on the reel. There is NO need to empty the reel and start over.

Ed Sukach · Apr 1, 2009

There is NO "error" here .. or possible. Some swear by stainless steel - they claim they are easier to use, cleaning them is more efficient, and less prone to loading problems - the last probably attributable to the cross section of the wire construction - all round - offering less chance for film "stubbing" than a square, softer plastic.

Paterson plastic reels have the "ball and ramp" design - I prefer them over all the others for ease and reliablity in loading film - and I'll use a Paterson tank in "stand" develoment.
I regularly use JOBO reels - necessary with a JOBO CPP2 Processor with Lift, with *very* few problems.

Whichever tank you choose, the KEY is to PRACTICE. Sacrifice a roll (or whatever) of film and PRACTICE in broad daylight. An indicator that you have practiced enough is when your wife (or whoever) cracks and informs you that you will be beaten mercilessly with a baseball bat (or cricket - or whatever) bat "If you do that one more time."

One minor "tip" - when loading, resist the tendency to squeeze the reel flanges in - toward each other. Pulling them away from each other, slightly, will release most "jams" - more important to remember with the softer platic reels.

Ian Grant · Apr 1, 2009

Steve Roberts said:
What's the fascination with stainless steel reels? I know that they can supposedly be loaded wet, which may be important for those with a high film throughput, but from the frequent postings I've seen on the subject of loading the things they seem to be a retrograde step from the convenience of a plastic reel in a Johnson's or Paterson's bakelite tank.
No doubt the error of my ways will be pointed out !

Steve

The stainless steel reels were mainly used commercially in deep tanks, I used to use wire baskets that would probably hold 20 or 30 reels at a time. We never loaded them wet, they are so quick to dry it was never necessary.

In the US a company called Nikor manufactured amateur size SS tanks & reels that were very popular and common, but they were less popular in the UK. My preference is actually to use Paterson or Jobo tanks because the stainless steel type are far slower to fill & empty.

Ian

Vaughn · Apr 1, 2009

Hewes SS reels are a worthy investment (the Brits do some things right!). They use the sprocket holes to grab the film (instead of the center clip), making it easy to get the film straight. They are also heavier-duty than other reels and less likely to get bent. I have bought new SS reels (non-Hewes) that were bent and unusable right out of the box. I go thru the ones here at the university every once in awhile with some old film just to check for bent ones. I wish our budget could afford to buy a couple dozen Hewes...I have 3 or 4 that I lend to students who are having a particularily hard time loading the cheaper ones.

Steve -- much of it is just what one learned with. But SS reels and tanks are easier to keep clean, there are less parts, they are smaller (and require less chemicals), and though one may have to replace the plastic lid, SS tanks and reels can last a lifetime. The SS tanks also keep the chemicals at temperature easier if using a tempering water bath. Someone did mention that the SS reels/tanks do have a learning curve, but once one has done a dozen rolls or so, the SS reels are just as easy and fast as the plastic reels...especially for 120 film. But as long as one has even development and consistant results it does not matter what one uses.

Vaughn

nyoung · Apr 1, 2009

Steve Roberts said:
What's the fascination with stainless steel reels? I know that they can supposedly be loaded wet, which may be important for those with a high film throughput, but from the frequent postings I've seen on the subject of loading the things they seem to be a retrograde step from the convenience of a plastic reel in a Johnson's or Paterson's bakelite tank.
No doubt the error of my ways will be pointed out !

Steve

Cheaper, cleaner, faster, simpler IMHO. I've never loaded wet but I can double load - two rolls of film back-to-back - SS reels to develop 8 rolls in a four reel tank.

Personally, I get the cheap Chinese reels from Freestyle and throw them away when they get bent.

Christopher Walrath · Apr 1, 2009

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nyoung said:
Steve Roberts said:

What's the fascination with stainless steel reels? I know that they can supposedly be loaded wet, which may be important for those with a high film throughput, but from the frequent postings I've seen on the subject of loading the things they seem to be a retrograde step from the convenience of a plastic reel in a Johnson's or Paterson's bakelite tank.
No doubt the error of my ways will be pointed out !

Steve

Click to expand...

Cheaper, cleaner, faster, simpler IMHO. I've never loaded wet but I can double load - two rolls of film back-to-back - SS reels to develop 8 rolls in a four reel tank.

Personally, I get the cheap Chinese reels from Freestyle and throw them away when they get bent.

Translation, the dark side is quicker, easier, more seductive. Like S/S reels.

David Brown · Apr 1, 2009

Steve Roberts said:
What's the fascination with stainless steel reels?

It's simply a matter of preference. Like so many other things on internet forums, it can become a religious issue with people defending their own practices.

Lighten up, folks ... :rolleyes:

Larry Bullis · Apr 1, 2009

bsdunek said:
I find it easier if I don't use the clip at the center of the reel. If the film is not perfectly centered you'll probably have problems. If the film is not clipped, it will find it's alignment. Just hold your finger on it until you get the first turn, then let it float.

The earliest Nikor reels, the original SS reels, had no clip or other retaining device. I wish I had a few more of those; they worked a lot better. I frequently follow the advice quoted above, and it works. It's funny, but when ingenious improvements were made to secure the film, what wasn't broke was fixed with less than helpful results.

Vaughn mentioned the ease with which the SS reels can be washed. But that's not all! They can be rinsed in very hot water, and then they dry really fast, can be almost instantly if the water is hot enough. This is one of the main reasons commercial labs used them; often, the volume of film required fast turnaround.

I use them because that is what I learned on, and then working in labs, I had no choice even had I wished to change. When I try to use the clips, though, I often have trouble. I've been considering just pulling the clips out with a pair of pliers.

Mike W · Apr 1, 2009

Another vote for Hewes Reels; i find that they are much easier to load than the clip-type reels. As noted above, practice with an old roll of film, with your eyes closed, untill you can consistently load the reel properly. D-76!

fotch · Apr 1, 2009

Steve Roberts said:
What's the fascination with stainless steel reels? I know that they can supposedly be loaded wet, which may be important for those with a high film throughput, but from the frequent postings I've seen on the subject of loading the things they seem to be a retrograde step from the convenience of a plastic reel in a Johnson's or Paterson's bakelite tank.
No doubt the error of my ways will be pointed out !

Steve

While either plastic or stainless steel can be problematic if something is wrong, I think the SS has the edge when everything is perfect. I use both and have no problems.

For color, I use a JOBO and their plastic reals. For B&W, I usually use SS reels and tanks, the old fashion way. Its real easy once you get the hang of it.

Some of the early plastic reels (Yankee, Ansco, others) did not work as good as the JOBO reels, at least for me.

Practice in day light (with a practice roll), then with you eyes shuts, until its as easy as breathing. JMHO

Larry Bullis · Apr 1, 2009

I haven't yet got to where I can reliably load the Jobo reels. One of these days. There's not a lot I like to use the Jobo for, so I don't get enough practice. I do like it if I need lots of contrast, such as when developing my wife's zone plate images. Jobo for half an hour is great. My arms would get tired.

My students use the Paterson reals, and they have good results. I just don't care for them. I don't think I have to have a reason for that. The steel reels are clean, easy, and use just a bit less chemistry.

Why not try no reel at all? I had an assistant once, who, coming into the supply room, asked "What are those things?" pointing at the developing tanks. My jaw dropped, and I explained.

He was Vietnamese, had operated a studio in Saigon. I asked him how he developed film.

He took a length of iron pipe, with a cap on one end, and fed the film straight down into it. The film was just a bit wider than the diameter of the inside of the pipe, so it held itself straight. Then he'd pour the chemicals in, screw a cap onto the other end, and twirl it baton style for the appropriate time.

sidearm613 · Apr 1, 2009

Vaughn said:
Hewes SS reels are a worthy investment (the Brits do some things right!). They use the sprocket holes to grab the film (instead of the center clip), making it easy to get the film straight. They are also heavier-duty than other reels and less likely to get bent. I have bought new SS reels (non-Hewes) that were bent and unusable right out of the box. I go thru the ones here at the university every once in awhile with some old film just to check for bent ones. I wish our budget could afford to buy a couple dozen Hewes...I have 3 or 4 that I lend to students who are having a particularily hard time loading the cheaper ones.

Steve -- much of it is just what one learned with. But SS reels and tanks are easier to keep clean, there are less parts, they are smaller (and require less chemicals), and though one may have to replace the plastic lid, SS tanks and reels can last a lifetime. The SS tanks also keep the chemicals at temperature easier if using a tempering water bath. Someone did mention that the SS reels/tanks do have a learning curve, but once one has done a dozen rolls or so, the SS reels are just as easy and fast as the plastic reels...especially for 120 film. But as long as one has even development and consistant results it does not matter what one uses.

Vaughn

I agree with Vaughn here. If SS is your dig, spring for the Hewes reels. Those sprocket hole grabber thingers make alignment exponentially easier, and once you get the sprockets clipped in, its a complete snatch. gentle curl to the film, wind the reel around. It helps my to keep the hand that holds the film (this is the left in my case, but most people are right handed so...) close to the reel itself that way the film has less space to bend or form a strange kink or concave.

MattKing · Apr 2, 2009

My tip - practice in a quiet room and learn how the film sounds when it is being loaded correctly.

I prefer stainless steel in 35mm - no clips, no Hewes perforation grabbers, just a slot in the middle that holds the film when you crimp it slightly.

I just wish that 120 worked as well (for me).

Matt

David William White · Apr 2, 2009

This annoys people, but FWIW: If you can't find plastic, vinyl, or steel reels that you can be happy with, just toss them. You don't need reels to develop film.

Mike Richards · Apr 2, 2009

One other point about SS vs plastic reels. The plastic reels that load from the outside in by twisting work fine for most films, but if you are ever going to use a thick film such as Kodak HIE, or one that has an anti-halation backing, it's very difficult to keep twisting and loading once the film is half way loaded. The film just does not want to slide in the grooves. No problem with the ss reels that load from the inside out.

Christopher Walrath · Apr 2, 2009

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Hey, this would be a great topic for the magazine. If any of you would like to offer your advice on the best tank/reel setup and advice on loading film then PM me with your bit, your name and location. If I get four or more then I'll put something together for June.

problems with 35mm ss reels

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