Problems with 120 Foma 200

ColRay · Dec 1, 2011

I'm having no end of problems with 120 Foma 200. The first and last couple of frames are okay . The problem is the frames in the centre of the roll, they are covered in tram lines and the film base has a very dark muddy look.

It also looks like this batch of film has very heavy anti-halation layer, I end up with cyan chemistry.
Colin

Jim Noel · Dec 1, 2011

Why don't you begin the processing with a 5 minute pre-wash to get rid of the anti-halation layer? If this doesn't do it, add a few drops of LFN to the pre-wash. Once the layer is eliminated, perhaps the film will appear to be OK from end to end. I can't account for tram lines unless they have to do with handling or equipment.

ColRay · Dec 1, 2011

Hi Jim I will give the next roll a pre-wash
Colin

dnjl · Dec 2, 2011

Pre-soaking will remove most of the anti-halation layer, although this is not strictly necessary. Fomapan 200 is a very delicate emulsion, prone to scratches and handling defects. I find it impossible to avoid micro-scratches, although I've discovered that using plain water instead of a stop bath somewhat reduces this problem. If you have white specks on your film, try to mix your developer in demineralised water.

It's a real pity. Fomapan 200 is a lovely film, why can't they make eliminate the scratching defects?

Ian Grant · Dec 2, 2011

If you use a staining developer like Pyrocat HD the developer also tans and hardens the emulsion. However are you sure the films fully fixed.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 2, 2011

All Fomapan 120 films have a blue/green antihalation dye. It's the only type of film that will color my replenished Xtol ANY color, and it's actually kind of cool to pour it into the beaker prior to processing and see its unique color.

As has been said, the film has lovely qualities from a picture making standpoint, but it handles kind of wonky. It likes to curl, and the backing paper is like fine sandpaper, and I honestly worry about putting it through my cameras sometimes, afraid it will be abrasive on the equipment.

A presoak will remove the antihalation dye, but the dye doesn't adversely affect your processing. I can see no change in results whether I presoak the film or not, so I just don't.

Ian's suggestion that the film might not be fully fixed is a good one. And please do handle this film with care, because it does scratch easily.

Good luck!

snederhiser · Dec 2, 2011

Hello Colin;
Try rinsing the film after developing, sometimes takes me 5 cycles to get rid of the blue dye. Also ues a good hardening fixer. Personally I am going to presoak the film before developing. Even a old dog can learn new tricks, Steven.

Rick A · Dec 2, 2011

I use Pyrocat-HD with a three minute presoak. The presoak removes all the antihalation dye, while the Pyro tans and hardens the emulsion. I use it with all Efke, Adox, and Arista EDU Ultra(Efke) films. I use stop bath diluted 50% normal strength, then a 30 second water rinse prior to using TF-4 fix from Formulary. I have yet to see any scratches or other imperfections with these films(other than curl) and this method.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 2, 2011

How is the blue dye a problem? Why is it necessary to get rid of it?

Ian Grant · Dec 2, 2011

Thomas Bertilsson said:
How is the blue dye a problem? Why is it necessary to get rid of it?

It isn't a problem at all, I never use a pre-soak with B&W films and have used a lot of Fomapan 100 & 200 in replenished Xtol and Pyrocat HD.

You need to use extra care removing from a spiral as if it curls up on itself there is a danger of a corner nicking the wet emulsion somewhere.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 2, 2011

Ian Grant said:
It isn't a problem at all, I never use a pre-soak with B&W films and have used a lot of Fomapan 100 & 200 in replenished Xtol and Pyrocat HD.

Thanks, Ian. That was precisely my point in posting the question. I could never understand the obsession with removing the antihalation dye, as there is seemingly no benefit to doing so.
It doesn't seem to make any difference at all.

dnjl · Dec 2, 2011

I guess the only real benefit of presoaking would be to control temperature, which is what I do it for. Plus it looks really cool when you pour out that green-blueish stuff. On a side note, Fomapan never curls with me, it dries very flat when I hang it to dry.

Is there any other developer than Pyro with hardening properties? I really love Fomapan, but I've almost given up on it because of the scratches.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 2, 2011

waltereegho said:
I guess the only real benefit of presoaking would be to control temperature, which is what I do it for. Plus it looks really cool when you pour out that green-blueish stuff.

Tempering the tank makes sense. My darkroom is about 60*F in the summer and 45*F in the winter, so I use a water bath for my stainless steel tank AND the chemicals to bring them all to temperature before I start the process.

waltereegho said:
Is there any other developer than Pyro with hardening properties? I really love Fomapan, but I've almost given up on it because of the scratches.

Caffenol. I know it's tanning, but not sure whether it hardens or not.

ColRay · Dec 2, 2011

Thanks for all the info guys I think I will "bin it!'.
One way or another I have been involved in photography for over 50 years, that's when I started in 1959 working in Dufay colour film factory/laboratory . Now retired but when earning the dollar I was part owner of a very small colour lab printing for just a few of WAs commercial photographers, also have worked as the darkroom technician for a couple of top photographers (Boy I sound like a real big head). So over the years I wouldn't have a clue how much film has been through my hands.... But I reckon that batch of FOMA must rank along with some of the crap that was being made in the Soviet Union back in the early 60's. Colin

snederhiser · Dec 3, 2011

Hello Thomas;
I run a tank system, use replenished D-76 and fixer until exhausted. Just do not like the color contamination, Steven.

ColRay · Dec 13, 2011

Justprocessed a roll of a later batch.. no problems the results where great.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 13, 2011

snederhiser said:
Hello Thomas;
I run a tank system, use replenished D-76 and fixer until exhausted. Just do not like the color contamination, Steven.

Please forgive me for being blunt, but that's a reason I cannot comprehend.
The job of your developer is not to look nice, it is to develop your film properly. Why does it matter what color it is?

To ColRay - glad you had some good results finally! Let's hope it continues.

Problems with 120 Foma 200

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