Problems after Zorki 4 CLA

Dan-George · Aug 23, 2016

Hello! This is my first try doing a CLA on a 1967 Zorki whose shutter (both curtains) stuck just about every time I fired it. After dismantling the top and front plate, I applied WD40 on the curtain rollers and bottom gears using a hypodermic syringe. But this only partially solved my problem as the second curtain still failed to close at speeds other than 1/125. Then I applied WD40 to the gears on the top part (timer dial on shutter curtain shaft and escapement gears) and now the curtain opens and closes pretty smoothly every time.

However, after doing CLA I now have some different issues to sort out:
- sometimes when I press the release button to fire the shot the shutter hangs until I release the button again (like in B)
- sometimes while using slow speeds (under 1/60) the shutter opens and closes instantly, i.e. before the slow speed mechanism should engage the second curtain

I've noticed that applying force on the rewind know marginally helps.
Could it be that because of my WD40 the pin jumps out of its set place on the rotary timer dial when I fire the shot?

Dali · Aug 23, 2016

Applying WD40 is not what I call a CLA. Send your camera to a repairman who knows his job.

Dan-George · Aug 23, 2016

Now that's how you put somebody off...

Helinophoto · Aug 23, 2016

Although I do agree that the comment to the OP was unnecessarily curt, it does have a valid point.

You've sort of done the "L" in the CLA part, although I am not entirely sure if WD40 will give you a lasting fix, since it tends to dry out after a while, the gunk it may have removed, may have shifted to another place in the internals.

I don't know the mechanics of the Zorki 4 (I have a 4K myself) well enough to offer any good suggestions, but rangefinderforum.com is known to have people who know these cameras very well.

A pro CLA will probably cost more than the camera, so if you keep having issues, I suppose a new one from eBay (from an Ukranian or Russian seller, since they often do a traditional, old-school Russian CLA before they sell stuff), would be your best bet and keep the old one for parts/fun taking apart.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 23, 2016

OP.... Dumping WD-40 into camera which has dried out old grease will not do anything. And do not even dare to call this act of vandalism as CLA.

Dan-George · Aug 23, 2016

I would be happy if you guys could offer some insights into my problems instead of criticizing my choice of wording. That'll be great!!

Dali · Aug 23, 2016

Pouring WD40 in a camera is not a question of wording. You just made things worse.

darkosaric · Aug 23, 2016

First of all - welcome to APUG .

Zorki and other FSU cameras are (in my experience) very problematic. Lenses are great. I would avoid to use them, if you can afford Leica or Bessa - go for it (I tried many, many FSU cameras - all were problematic).
If you want to stay with Zorki/FED/other FSU cameras - then search for some other example. When you get problematic Zorki camera - it is wast of time to try to repair it, just look for another example.

Dali · Aug 23, 2016

Darko, FSU cameras are problematic when they are not fairly treated. Pour WD40 in a Leica or a Contax and let's see the result...

FSU cameras are not the most precise tools but I still own and use a bunch of them (FED1, FED3, Zorki1) and they all work flawlessly. Why? Because they are maintained like any camera should be. Maizenberg book is the Bible and nowhere he recommends to spray oil everywhere.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 23, 2016

darkosaric said:
...just look for another example.

Wrong. Most of FSU cameras aren't problematic, most of FSU RF cameras needs CLA. Most of all CLEANING, some lubrication and little bit of adjustment.

darkosaric · Aug 23, 2016

In my experience (over 20 different cameras) - all FSU cameras (Zorki, Zenit, FED...) were problematic: shutter problems, not reliable, eating/destroying film, you name it. When I lived in Poland I tried many many different models (they are cheap there), almost every that I could find was not working ok, or becoming unreliable after couple of weeks.

Dali · Aug 23, 2016

From my experience...

FED1: no problem once you master bottom loading
Zorki1: no problem once you master bottom loading
FED3: no problem
Mir: No problem
Zenit 3M: Had to tension the second curtain (5 minutes task when you know how to do it... No WD40 needed).
Kiev 2A: Had to send it to Oleg to get the shutter adjusted. I have a similar issue with a Contax 2A...

Some could benefit from a new split mirror but nothing exceptional with 50+ years old cameras.

Helinophoto · Aug 23, 2016

Only issue i have (I own a zorki 1(D??) and a Zorki 4k, is that the diopter on the 4k "jumps" slightly when I take a photo ^^

My 1d works very very well, but it was serviced in Ukraine before I got it.

I suggest that the op ask at rangefinderforum, as there are people with very good technical expertise on these cameras there.

MattKing · Aug 23, 2016

To Dan-George (the OP):
1) first, welcome to APUG;
2) WD40 is the reason for at least half the reaction you got. It is awful stuff if you allow it near a camera. It is a Water Dispersant lubricant that tends to damage cameras, because it tends to make things a lot worse in cameras that need cleaning and lubricating. And people tend to react with alarm and sometimes even anger when they see someone using it. Sorry your greeting to APUG happened to coincide with that;
3) the other half of the reason for the reaction was your choice of cameras. The FSU cameras certainly bring rise to strong opinions. I guess that is one of their attractions.

In any event, I hope you get enjoyment out of your participation here.

foc · Aug 23, 2016

Hi, I have a Zorki 4 and a Fed 4B and I sent both for a CLA to Roger Lean in the UK (I see you are in Romania). He was a repair engineer with Technical and Optical Equipmemt in London who were the Uk importers for Zenit, Zorki, Fed. Because all cameras through T&OE were double checked by Roger and his team, it meant that all UK Soviet cameras were reliable. (It was poor quality control in the Soviet Union that was the big problem, remember these cameras were copies of Leicas)

Here are a few sites that might help with your own CLA.
http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/info/2.htm
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-58.html

Also remember that these cameras are old and more than likely weren't cared for, so if it's working then that an achievement.

John Koehrer · Aug 23, 2016

Other than the big cranky pants folks being cranky with their delivery, they are right about
Wd40. It's not a lubricant and will leave a barely noticeable residue that's more
likely go gum things up rather than free them up.
Something like a watch oil is the best lube to use.

Helinophoto · Aug 24, 2016

Maybe this is relevant:

http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/info/2.htm

http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00Q1e1

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

klownshed · Aug 24, 2016

I have a Zorki 4 and it works really nicely.

It didn't when I got it though.

The trouble with Zorki 4s is that they need to be used in a particular sequence. You shouldn't change the shutter speed unless the shutter is cocked and they can get out of sequence after rewinding film if you cock the shutter before the sprockets are properly re-engaged.

If you mess around with them trying to get them work after using them incorrectly, all manner of problems can occur, especially with the slow speed escapement. Levers and springs slip past the posts they should align with and they then need to be adjusted to get them purring again. Which means taking them apart.

The other problem with Zorkis is that they are very cheap. They therefore don't get sent for service, as they're not considered to be worth it. If you've paid £10 for a camera, if it doesn't work the first port of call is usually to try and fix it yourself. This results in an even more broken Zorki, which gets given to a charity shop or is sold on an auction site for £10 with "I think it works, I don't know anything about cameras..." in the description.

So it's very easy to break a Zorki just by using it the way you'd use any other camera and then making it (much) worse by tinkering with it. That explains why so many of them are problematic.

When my Zorki was DOA, I tried to fix it myself and (obviously) managed to make it worse. I eventually sent it to a guy called Ron in the Netherlands who did a great job of fixing it for me. I wouldn't usually have bothered spending good money on fixing such a cheap camera, but I liked the little Zorki and felt bad for "fixing it worse". I'm glad I did though, it's a nice little camera that takes decent photos that have a very distinctive look. I admit I don't use it as much as my OM-2 (or Holga!) but it's a camera I very much enjoy using. But it has bags of character, both in use and in print.

Fixing them is very hard if you don't know what you're doing. Especially when you're dealing with 50 odd year old springs and cogs that was engineering bordering on the agricultural when new.

But when set up correctly they are well worth running some rolls of film through. I can only speak for Zorki 4s but I'm sure that lots of other FSU cameras are the same.

zanxion72 · Aug 24, 2016

WD40 on the curtain rollers might end you up with the curtains unglued from their drums. It is the silliest thing to do.
1. Open the lower half of the camera and clean up the paths of the curtains and the gears under their rollers. Apply on these gears only a drop of oil making sure the drums do not get any.
2. Put the lower part back.
3. Open the top and with a brush dipped in lighter fluid clean up the clockwork mechanism that controls the slow speeds. Clean it thoroughly holding the camera flat so that no lighter fluid finds its way to the drums of the curtains. Do not put any oil in there. Dry it and put the top back on.

That's it.

P.S.: Keep the WD40 away from your cameras. It is most likely you will do damage than any good to them.

onre · Aug 26, 2016

There are springs and grease inside the curtain drums. Cleaning and re-doing them is a good idea because their smooth operation is rather important for precise shutter timing across the film gate. I've done a couple of CLA's to old Soviet cameras just for fun and have noticed that they can be adjusted to a rather high standard of precision.

B getting stuck and the other problem sound like there's something wrong under the shutter speed dial. I've dismantled and thoroughly cleaned the mechanism in one Zorki-4 to get it to work correctly, but this wasn't enough. I had to go deeper and clean & lubricate the concentric drums - the ones which collect shutter curtain and ribbons when you cock the shutter. After that it worked perfectly.

If you need accurate disassembly and adjustment instructions, send me a private message.

ColColt · Aug 26, 2016

I'd never buy a camera that sounded too much like Dorki.

Theo Sulphate · Aug 26, 2016

ColColt said:
I'd never buy a camera that sounded too much like Dorki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorki

ColColt · Aug 26, 2016

Yep-a Leica wannabe.

Patrick Robert James · Aug 27, 2016

WD-40 was designed as a cleaner, not a lubricant. That came straight from the inventor's son FWIW. There are better cleaners these days so I never use it anymore.

FSU cameras can be quite nice if they are done right. I have owned several over the years. They are fun to use since they are so basic, and they are cheap. My favorite one is an early Zorki 5 I got for peanuts since it didn't work. I ended up rebuilding it for fun which included completely stripping it, cleaning and relubing everything and replacing the shutter curtains. I also under wound the shutter springs to give me 1/12 instead of 1/25 although I only get 1/250 on the high end. 1/12 is more useful than 1/500 I think. It is remarkably smooth now and incredibly quiet with the low tension on the springs. I did that about 15 years ago and it is still smooth as butter. It is also quieter than my Leica M3. It really is a little gem.

My opinion is that FSU cameras are actually really nice if they are rebuilt. They are simple mechanisms too so it is easy. Just replace all the yak grease or whatever they used with high quality lubes and you should be good to go.

Dali · Aug 27, 2016

I did the same with a 1939 FED 1 and it works flawlessly since. Like you, I gave minimum shutter tension and it is a very quiet camera. The uncoated lens was cleaned and re-greased and it is a joy to use.

Problems after Zorki 4 CLA

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