Problem with radio triggers on film camera (rz67 & 35mm SLR)

Qiuhong · Nov 25, 2022

Hi, I'm running into problems firing my radio triggers on 2 of my film cameras (mamiya RZ67 & contax 159mm SLR)

Trigger: cheap set from ebay, pretty sure it's rebranded newer. It fires every time on my digital, on a 90s electronic slr, and on mamiya 645 pro with no problem.

Issue: on my rz67 and contax SLR, when attached to the hotshoe or via PC cable it only fires maybe 1 out of 6 times on speeds higher than 1/60s, it fires more frequently at slower speed like 1/8s and still skips fire sometimes, and at slower speeds it not only fires when the shutter closes but sometimes when it opens too, making it a double-fire.

Trouble shooting I've done: tried different cables, different flashes, put in new batteries, cleaned the ports with alcohol, still no luck

The only thing I haven't tried is using another brand of trigger, if you know a cheap set that def work on the rz I'm down to try but I got no pocket wizard money at the moment....

Any help is appreciated...

removedacct3 · Nov 25, 2022

Hi,

I do not have a solution for your problem, but I would like to chime in by adding that I faced the same problem using Elinchrom triggers. The old, tiny and discontinued Elinchrom EL-Skyport Speed Transmitter does not work properly on some of my film camera's, but it does work like a charm on my older Pentax DSLR's. The newer Elinchrom EL-Skyport Universal Plus works like a charm on all my camera's.

Hope you find a fix or workaround anytime soon ...

Philippe-Georges · Nov 25, 2022

Sync speed?
If I am not mistaking, that camera has a in lens shutter, which can sync till 1/500 sec, some radio triggers can't handel that fast speed, what speed is set?

Is the sync system set for electronic flash or 'mechanical' flash (=> X or M), on the assumption that it can be set on an Mamiya (on a Hasselblad it can be)?

Try the PC port on the lens, I suppose that the the accessoire shoe on the camera isn't 'hot'...

But, these are only assumptions as I don't have a Mamiya but I had a close look at that picture you posted.

Qiuhong · Nov 25, 2022

Philippe-Georges said:
Sync speed?
If I am not mistaking, that camera has a in lens shutter, which can sync till 1/500 sec, some radio triggers can't handel that fast speed, what speed is set?

Is the sync system set for electronic flash or 'mechanical' flash (=> X or M), on the assumption that it can be set on an Mamiya (on a Hasselblad it can be)?

Try the PC port on the lens, I suppose that the the accessoire shoe on the camera isn't 'hot'...

But, these are only assumptions as I don't have a Mamiya but I had a close look at that picture you posted.

Hi, I explained in detail in the post, I tried all speeds, there's no XM on rz, tried the port too. None worked

Qiuhong · Nov 25, 2022

MrclSchprs said:
Hi,

I do not have a solution for your problem, but I would like to chime in by adding that I faced the same problem using Elinchrom triggers. The old, tiny and discontinued Elinchrom EL-Skyport Speed Transmitter does not work properly on some of my film camera's, but it does work like a charm on my older Pentax DSLR's. The newer Elinchrom EL-Skyport Universal Plus works like a charm on all my camera's.

Hope you find a fix or workaround anytime soon ...

Thanks, taht's good to know, I was afraid that there's something wrong with the camera, maybe it's just the cheap triggers... I hope

MattKing · Nov 25, 2022

The flash synch "switches" in a camera needs a certain amount of voltage and current from the transmitter in order for the internal resistance to be overcome to permit the transmitter to trigger. The internal resistance can build up over time.
Older film cameras were designed when flashes had relatively high trigger voltages, although you need to be cautious using something with a high trigger voltage with an RZ67 (or 645 Pro) because the synch circuitry is at least partially electronic. The transmitter you are using may not supply enough voltage and/or current..
I've heard of this more frequently with the RB67 - where the purely mechanical synch circuits can build up considerable resistance over time.
Having the synch circuitry in the cameras checked and serviced may help. But it may be more effective to try another trigger.

koraks · Nov 26, 2022

MattKing said:
The flash synch "switches" in a camera needs a certain amount of voltage and current from the transmitter in order for the internal resistance to be overcome to permit the transmitter to trigger. The internal resistance can build up over time.

Hmmm, not quite.

Don't confuse the fact that older cameras will survive a high trigger voltage with needing a particular amount of energy to perform the trigger action. The latter is not the case. In older cameras, the flash trigger is generally just a mechanical contact with two pieces of metal being pushed together. As such the contact doesn't "care" about voltage or current. It's just like pushing two copper wires together.

What does happen is that these contacts, which may be e.g. silver-plated, will corrode. This will prevent them from conducting reliably. Partial corrosion can explain erratic behavior at different speeds etc.

Insofar as trigger voltage plays a role: if you have a trigger switch in a camera that's already in borderline condition, then yes, it may still trigger fine with an old flash unit that happens to use a high trigger voltage. this is not a sign of how the flash trigger was engineered, but a sign of it being in poor condition.

Long story short: open up camera, check trigger circuit and (probably) clean switch contacts. With a little bit of luck it's a DIY job for those with steady hands and some patience.

MattKing · Nov 26, 2022

I think koraks and I are talking about the same thing. The difference being that I don't think you are going to find a film camera any more whose synch circuit doesn't exhibit some increased internal resistance. I'd actually be surprised if the synch circuits were "perfect" conductors even when they were new.
But that doesn't change the fact that cleaning, and perhaps part replacement, will most likely be necessary.

koraks · Nov 26, 2022

MattKing said:
I think koraks and I are talking about the same thing.

Yes, but with a subtle difference in how we understand the underlying reasons. The functional conclusion is more or less the same.

M Carter · Nov 28, 2022

This is pretty common with RB shutters - they won't fire with cheapie radio slaves, like the $20 Amazon or Adorama stuff, it's something that comes up on forums from time to time. They'll work all day with a PocketWizard or the big old Quantum Radio Slaves. I have 7 RB lenses, and only the 90 will fire the cheap trigger, and only once every few shots. But you can buy used original-model Pocket Wizards affordably, and they're much simpler to use than the newer electronic ones - just 4 channels on a physical switch and no LCD screen to wear out.

Qiuhong · Dec 1, 2022

Thank you for all your valuable knowledge, it was indeed the cheap trigger, I tried a slightly more expensive one from b&h and it's working now, although I ran into a new problem where modern speedlight that recycles fast will fire twice when I press the shutter (once when opening and once when closing), even up to 1/250s, this issue occurs with 2 godox models and one neewer speedlight, not with old vivitar 285 that recycles slow, it happens with just the PC sync too, though it doesn't happen when I use the generic trigger and receiver. It still happens when i use godox trigger and the speedlight with built in receiver. Trying to find a flash set up for this rz67 is quite a difficult journey....

koraks · Dec 1, 2022

Sounds like contact bounce in your flash contact. Still needs to be cleaned...

Qiuhong · Dec 1, 2022

koraks said:
Sounds like contact bounce in your flash contact. Still needs to be cleaned...

Could you let me know where to clean? the gold colored contact? rubber eraser or
cotton swab with alcohol?

Thank you I have no idea

koraks · Dec 1, 2022

Qiuhong said:
Could you let me know where to clean?

Depends on the camera, but it's usually a contact located inside the camera body or (with leaf shutter lenses like yours) the lens, close to or as part of the shutter mechanism. It's not something you can reach without taking apart either lens or camera. I don't know if the RZ67 body takes the flash sync signal from the lens shutter or if it generates its own sync inside the body.

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