Problem with ORWO 74 film.

bimmey · Jun 8, 2024

I just developed a roll of orwo 74 400 speed 35mm film. Used D76 at the recommended 1:1 at 20 degrees C for 9min.(massive development chart) Aside from negatives being thin I noticed large areas of the film that seemed to have no emulsion. I noticed when loading the film in my camera there were clear areas around the sprocket holes, but not the entire edge. You can see on the pictures.

I bought the film from Silberra a few years ago and this is the only roll that was like this. Has anyone seen this happen before? Thanks in advance.

dynachrome · Jun 8, 2024

It looks to me like the film was loaded incorrectly onto the reel.

cmacd123 · Jun 8, 2024

dynachrome said:
It looks to me like the film was loaded incorrectly onto the reel.

or it got wet at some point.

cmacd123 · Jun 8, 2024

The rumor at the time that N74+ came out was the formula was from Filmotec but it was coated in the UK. the only folks who coat film in the UK have rather sensitive equipment to ensure anything with gaps in the coating like that would never leave the factory. (I suspect that the folks in Germany who coated the N75 would also have ways of perventing film with damaged coating leaving as other then scrap) thus I assume that the damage happened later.

bimmey · Jun 8, 2024

Thanks for the responses. It is unlikely but not impossible that I loaded the film onto the reel improperly. And I am very careful not to get the film wet as it becomes impossible to load wet film on a plastic reel. The next film I developed after that one was Kentmere 400 and it came out fine. So I'll chalk it up to sloppy work on my part, and be happy there was nothing important on the orwo roll.

pentaxuser · Jun 9, 2024

bimmey said:
Thanks for the responses. It is unlikely but not impossible that I loaded the film onto the reel improperly. And I am very careful not to get the film wet as it becomes impossible to load wet film on a plastic reel. The next film I developed after that one was Kentmere 400 and it came out fine. So I'll chalk it up to sloppy work on my part, and be happy there was nothing important on the orwo roll.

Or it was sloppy on the first occasíon but not the second when it was Kentmere?

I am not sure how you might managed to have loaded the Orwo film badly enough on to the same reel or type of reel of on the first occasion without noticing serious difficulty in so doing and then on the second occasion found no difficulty It is completely unclear to me what you'd have to do to tear the emulsion off the base

Frankly it looks as if you had a faulty film from Orwo but not from Ilford where QC is second to none.

pentaxuser

koraks · Jun 9, 2024

The defect here shows a clear relation to the sprocket holes, which means it can't be a coating defect.

The dark ends on the tips of these shapes suggest that material has accumulated there. This suggests that the emulsion has indeed been removed in the clear areas; it's not just a matter of bleaching of the silver image or something similar.

The overall pattern reminds me of film that has been wet for a long time (at least several hours, probably more) or that was exposed to a very alkaline solution (sodium hydroxide, household bleach etc.) Either way, something seems to have had the chance of softening the emulsion, and 'creeping around' possibly through capillary action (see the sprocket hole snippet).

Was the film loaded into the camera on a rainy day or under conditions of very high humidity? It all reminds me of drops of water having found their way onto the film perhaps as it was being loaded into the camera, or when spooling an exposed leader section back into the camera while it was wet or had some droplets hanging onto it.

bimmey · Jun 9, 2024

It was a rainy day when the camera was loaded. It was also at the Ocean. I believe the film was spooled from a big roll at the Silberra shop. Hence the Russian script on the film can. Could have been a problem at that point. I must admit I was reluctant to develop the Kentmere until this was figured out.

I developed the orwo for 9min in D76 per massive development chart. The negatives look thin to me. Chart calls for 14min for the Kentmere at the same dilution. That seems a big difference since they are both 400 speed films.

pentaxuser · Jun 9, 2024

bimmey said:
It was a rainy day when the camera was loaded. It was also at the Ocean. I believe the film was spooled from a big roll at the Silberra shop. Hence the Russian script on the film can. Could have been a problem at that point. I must admit I was reluctant to develop the Kentmere until this was figured out.

I developed the orwo for 9min in D76 per massive development chart. The negatives look thin to me. Chart calls for 14min for the Kentmere at the same dilution. That seems a big difference since they are both 400 speed films.

Did you load the camera in the open so that rain fell on the film? How heavy was the rain? Did you see drops of rain land on the film? Being at the Ocean doesn't seem relevant unless you were close enough when loading the film that some ocean spray landed on the film? Were you?

If the answer to my questions are No then the odds favour something happening to the film when it was spooled from a big roll and you did nothing to affect the film adversely

pentaxuser

cmacd123 · Jun 9, 2024

pentaxuser said:
Frankly it looks as if you had a faulty film from Orwo but not from Ilford where QC is second to none.

which is why I am suspecting something after the film left the coating factory. if any film had that sort of defect, it would never have left the factory. The follow up information from the orginal poster more or less locks in the thory that the film got wet or very moist while still on the spool.

pentaxuser · Jun 10, 2024

cmacd123 said:
which is why I am suspecting something after the film left the coating factory. if any film had that sort of defect, it would never have left the factory. The follow up information from the orginal poster more or less locks in the thory that the film got wet or very moist while still on the spool.

Yes I agree and even more so if we can be sure that the OP has locked in your theory.

pentaxuser

bimmey · Jun 10, 2024

Pentaxuser, I was under a gazebo when loading the camera, so no rain drops or sea spray got on the film. I loaded it in my Leica that I am rather careful with. The Kentmere was shot in my Contax RTSII loaded at home.

Thanks for all the insights. This has me thinking on the history of these two rolls of film. The Kentmere is fresh, the Orwo was purchased three years ago with some Sllberra film (respooled Aviphot sp) It was kept in a small refrigerator that went kaput two years ago. All the film was in a very moist environment for months before discovering the problem. I only use that film for experimenting with different developers. I was going to develop it in Spur Acurol N, but I did not want to experiment with the Kentmere so I mixed up a liter of D76 and used it for both.

So it would seem all the film from that fridge should be trashed or not used seriously at all.

koraks · Jun 10, 2024

bimmey said:
So it would seem all the film from that fridge should be trashed or not used seriously at all.

I'd try a sample of a few rolls to see if the problems occur with more than this single roll. Generally, the plastic containers the 35mm rolls are in are waterproof and airtight, so even a moist and broken fridge should be no problem. All bets are off if the 35mm cassettes were not in such boxes though.

Problem with ORWO 74 film.

bimmey

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