Problem with my new to me F-1N

Larry the sailor · Mar 27, 2017

When I got the thing last week I put in a fresh battery and stepped it through the shutter speeds. While not a scientific measurement it appeared to work properly with each slower shutter speed being slower in turn from 1/2000 all the way to 8 sec.
Today it appears to be stuck on one shutter speed regardless of dial setting with or without battery inserted.
Any ideas?

mshchem · Mar 27, 2017

Clean the battery contacts with a pencil eraser, get another battery, find out what drains the battery. Old Pentax Spotmatics, the meter was always on. You had to keep the lens cap on to prevent battery drain. If that beauty has a dead battery and electronic shutter it may default to the flash sync speed like a Nikon F3.
That's a beautiful camera, it's got to be a simple problem
Best Regards Mike

mshchem · Mar 27, 2017

It looks like with a dead battery the shutter works from 2000th down to the flash sync speed of 1/90th. Also B works. Every thing else below 90th will sound like a 90th. I think you just need new battery and clean contacts

Larry the sailor · Mar 27, 2017

Tried a known good battery out of my AE-1 with same results also battery test shows good with either battery. Meter works as expected and self-timer will function but no change to shutter speed.
Should function without battery at higher speeds but can't tell any difference.
I'll clean the battery contacts and exercise the spring loaded pin but I'm thinking I may need to get it serviced.

zanxion72 · Mar 28, 2017

Sounds like a bad battery contact. Without the battery, the F-1N fires at 1/90 or faster and this may sound to you the same.
Remove the battery, press gently the lower terminal all the way down a few times and try with a known good battery again. Rarely, the switch that engages the electronically controlled shutter speeds under the lower battery terminal gets sticky making no contact by not coming up. Try a drop or two (do not flush the can in there) of lighter fluid on a thin soft brush, press down the terminal and brush as much possible the area that opens.

benjiboy · Mar 28, 2017

With the New F1 even if the battery is dead if you remove it from the camera as it says in the instruction manual the shutter should work correctly from the flash sync speed of 1/90 sec to 1/2000 and B because its a hybrid electro- mechanical shutter the battery only powers the light meter and the slow speeds http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/shutter/index.htm

Larry the sailor · Mar 28, 2017

OK had a little more time to play with this morning. I' have to update my previous hasty diagnosis. The mechanical shutter speeds appear to work right, I was going by "earball" instead of eye ball. Opening the back and watching the shutter it appears to change speed with the change of settings from 2000 down to 125 and 90 flash sync. What I was listening to was the mirror "slap" and not the shutter.
Anyway so now I'm left without the lower electronic controlled speeds.
Meter works as expected and battery check shows a full battery with both batteries. Zanxion72's suggestion has merit but I will need to pick up some lighter fluid before I can try it.
One possibly unrelated symptom is the self timer. I'll admit my hearing suck but instead of a "beep" that starts slow and speeds up all I can hear is a clicking sound but the self timer does fire the camera.

Hatchetman · Mar 28, 2017

Should have gotten a Pentax! (ducks)

benjiboy · Mar 28, 2017

Larry the sailor said:
OK had a little more time to play with this morning. I' have to update my previous hasty diagnosis. The mechanical shutter speeds appear to work right, I was going by "earball" instead of eye ball. Opening the back and watching the shutter it appears to change speed with the change of settings from 2000 down to 125 and 90 flash sync. What I was listening to was the mirror "slap" and not the shutter.
Anyway so now I'm left without the lower electronic controlled speeds.
Meter works as expected and battery check shows a full battery with both batteries. Zanxion72's suggestion has merit but I will need to pick up some lighter fluid before I can try it.
One possibly unrelated symptom is the self timer. I'll admit my hearing suck but instead of a "beep" that starts slow and speeds up all I can hear is a clicking sound but the self timer does fire the camera.

Have you checked the voltage output of the battery is 6 volts with a multimeter.

Larry the sailor · Mar 28, 2017

Not yet but with 2 batteries, 1 fresh from package and 1 working in another camera odds are in favor at least one of them are good but I will verify.

flavio81 · Mar 28, 2017

The Canon New F-1 was a very expensive camera intended for professionals. If you can take the time to read the very brief instruction manual, you can save time. So you would know that without a battery the available speeds are mechanical from 2000 to 90 including B.

And then if you take the time to research a bit more you would know that this depends on a mechanism that is located below the battery compartment. This mechanism engages mechanical shutter triggering. When the battery is fitted, the mechanism disengages mechanical triggering and enables electronic triggering, which will make all speeds work.

If this mechanism is stuck due to lack of lubrication, then the camera will be stuck in mechanical mode and no electronic mode available.

@zanxion72 is right.

Note that i wrote "if the mechanism is stuck" not "if it's broken", since NOTHING breaks inside a Canon F-1N.

Larry the sailor · Mar 29, 2017

Latest update - Still not working properly.
I'm leaning toward an electrical contact not making connection as suggested by zanxion72.
I've tried 3 different batteries, all check good by meter; 5.9vdc, 6.0vdc, 6.1vdc, with the same results.
I followed zanxion72's instructions for a sticky switch with no change in function.

Symptoms:
mechanical controlled speeds appear to function properly
electronic controlled speeds are not working ( no battery default function)
meter works as expected with battery installed
with battery in self timer functions but sometimes I hear a "clicking" sound instead of the expected 'beep"
several times during testing after putting the battery back in I got no function as if the battery was dead.

At this point my best guess is a stuck switch/contact.
I do not feel competent in disassembling this thing ( a man has to know his limitations).
Any suggestions for US based repair?

mshchem · Mar 29, 2017

I'm sure someone on here knows just the place. These guys have helped me out over many years , they can fix anything! Very reasonable pricing too.
http://www.united-camera.com/html/camera_repair.html

You need that baby tip top, that is a work of art. I'm an old Nikon man but that camera and the Pentax LX made me drool.
Best Mike

flavio81 · Mar 30, 2017

Larry the sailor said:
Latest update - Still not working properly.
I'm leaning toward an electrical contact not making connection as suggested by zanxion72.
I've tried 3 different batteries, all check good by meter; 5.9vdc, 6.0vdc, 6.1vdc, with the same results.
I followed zanxion72's instructions for a sticky switch with no change in function.

Symptoms:
mechanical controlled speeds appear to function properly
electronic controlled speeds are not working ( no battery default function)
meter works as expected with battery installed
with battery in self timer functions but sometimes I hear a "clicking" sound instead of the expected 'beep"
several times during testing after putting the battery back in I got no function as if the battery was dead.

At this point my best guess is a stuck switch/contact.
I do not feel competent in disassembling this thing ( a man has to know his limitations).
Any suggestions for US based repair?

Hi Larry,

The F-1N is a computer controlled camera. If meter works, the electronics should be OK. On the other hand the computer in the F-1N (this is straight from the brochures) will not fire the shutter if it detects an internal malfunction.

However, Canon electronics, even on the A-series camera, are very reliable and thus the F-1N electronics should be ultra-super-duper reliable. I suspect this is a mechanical issue with the internal lever that switches between mechanical (batteryless) use and electronic use.

You can try asking @paul ron who is a forumer versed in camera repair, perhaps he can point you to a technician.

Larry the sailor · Mar 31, 2017

mshchem said:
I'm sure someone on here knows just the place. These guys have helped me out over many years , they can fix anything! Very reasonable pricing too.
http://www.united-camera.com/html/camera_repair.html

You need that baby tip top, that is a work of art. I'm an old Nikon man but that camera and the Pentax LX made me drool.
Best Mike

That's one suggestion, thanks.
Any others?

Fixcinater · Mar 31, 2017

I bought an F1n that was in seemingly good shape but didn't work at a camera show from a vendor. I ended up having to remove the front plate, access the battery contact/spring assembly behind the plate and correct what seemed to be caused by abuse bent metal.

Can't help with the service location recommendation, but KEH is one option.

Larry the sailor · May 19, 2017

Got sidetracked dealing with my wife's health problems. She's better now and so is my New F-1N!
Sent it off to http://www.united-camera.com/html/camera_repair.html as recommended by mshchem.
Function check shows it to be working properly!! I've got a roll of HP5+ in it now but the weather is pretty crappy here now so no outside shooting, may see what I can do inside with it.

So far I am very happy with United Camera Repair. They contacted me promptly after receiving the camera, answered the phone quickly when I called to authorize repair and when I called in to pay after they notified me the repairs were completed. Camera was returned equally promptly. Total turnaround from me shipping it off USPS and delivery back to me was 13 calendar days, at least 4 of which were in transit.
They also performed a CLA, replaced light seals and bounce cushion. I consider the price reasonable.
At this point I would not hesitate to send them more work.

flavio81 · May 23, 2017

Larry the sailor said:
Got sidetracked dealing with my wife's health problems. She's better now and so is my New F-1N!
Sent it off to http://www.united-camera.com/html/camera_repair.html as recommended by mshchem.
Function check shows it to be working properly!! I've got a roll of HP5+ in it now but the weather is pretty crappy here now so no outside shooting, may see what I can do inside with it.

So far I am very happy with United Camera Repair. They contacted me promptly after receiving the camera, answered the phone quickly when I called to authorize repair and when I called in to pay after they notified me the repairs were completed. Camera was returned equally promptly. Total turnaround from me shipping it off USPS and delivery back to me was 13 calendar days, at least 4 of which were in transit.
They also performed a CLA, replaced light seals and bounce cushion. I consider the price reasonable.
At this point I would not hesitate to send them more work.

Excellent news, Larry!

Enjoy the camera. I'm sure the New F-1 will be everything you wish a camera should be, and more! It is an excellent tool.
Now time to assemble a great collection of the superb Canon FL & FD lenses!

Want my recommendation for inexpensive great FD lenses?
24: --- 24/2.8 nFD
28: --- 28/2.8 nFD
35: --- 35/3.5 FD S.C or 35/2.8 nFD. If you have more money, any 35/2
50: --- 50/1.4 nFD, 55/1.2 FD S.S.C., 55/1.2 FL
85: --- 85/1.8 nFD
100: --- 100/2.8 nFD
135: --- 135/2.5 FD S.C., 135/2.5 FL, 135/2.8 nFD
200: --- 200/4 nFD, if you have more money the 200/2.8 nFD

Larry the sailor · May 23, 2017

I saved off a copy of the list of lenses, good reference.
The 50/1.4 S.S.C. came with the F-1, seems to be a good lens.
I've got an old Vivitar 28mm /2.0 close focus/wide angle that I really like the way it works.
I peruse the selection of FD lenses at the only camera shop in my area when I go in, haven't seen any worth adding to my collection yet.
I got several lenses with the F-1, A mix of FL and FD, both Canon and 3rd party, haven't had a chance to see which ones I like yet

dxqcanada · May 23, 2017

Umm, what did United say the problem was with the camera ?

Larry the sailor · May 23, 2017

Their only comment was "repaired shutter control mechanism". It works right so that is good enough for me.
As part of the package deal with the F-1 came a very clean FT-QL which function checks ok but I haven't run any film through it yet. I'll likely send it off for a CLA and light seals to United as well before too long.

Problem with my new to me F-1N

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