Problem with Hasselblad film advancing

I have a Hasselblad 500 C/M with a C12 magazine. When you try to advance the film, the wheel loses grip, and you have to manually advance the film to the next frame with the small silver lever on the C12 magazine.
I've never had any problem with this, since the fix is easy. Though now that I have some money, I can afford service.
But I don't know where the problem is, in the camera body or in the magazine? Is there any way to find this out, or will I have to pay for service for both?

Send the camera and the back to David Odess. Explain the problem. He will fix it.

Arthurwg said:

Send the camera and the back to David Odess. Explain the problem. He will fix it.

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I live in Stockholm. The two people that I have found here who provide service don't specify for what price, or if, they'll just check a camera.
I'll ask them tomorrow, though I thought I could try to more exactly find out where the problem is before I call.

Well, it will probably be expensive. You might try to find a non-specialist repair person who will do what might be a very easy job for considerably less money than a Hasselblad person.

I would wager there are many Hasselblad technicians available in Sweden. Good luck, it should be a simple repair.

Check with Hasselblad they may have their own repair service. I've had both David Odess and Hasselblad in New Jersey do repairs here in the US with good results from both.
Hasselblad may have a flat rate forcleaning and adjustment that may correct the problem.

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http://www.sculptureandphotography.com/

Most "local" camera repair people can repair a Hasselblad - they were one of the standard cameras of the 80s and 90s for pros, so everyone had to know how to repair them if they operated a camera repair business. In your case, it could be either the back or the body. In all honesty, Hasselblad backs are not worth the price to repair. If it's broken, sell it in as-is condition on eBay, for someone else to repair and get yourself a working one. The body is probably worth repairing, but may be expensive. If you take the back off the body and turn the crank, does the gear in the back move? There should be a flat section and toothed section.

Grim Tuesday said:

There should be a flat section and toothed section.

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There is. I've looked at it in the past, and didn't see anything strange with the wheel in the body. I'm not near the camera right now, so can't check yet.
I have thought about just buying a new magazine, but they are more expensive than the service for both the house and magazine, at least here in Sweden.
I've thought about just buying a whole new kit, right now I don't have a T* lens, and the magazine is in silver and the body in black. Not that that is a catastrophe exactly.
But what should a 500 c/m with a T* 80mm cost you exactly? Here in Sweden the price varies widely depending on what the person selling thinks it's worth.
What's a reasonable price on ebay?

On ebay, select "Sold" auctions, there will a bit of variation, but that should give you a reasonable average of what people are paying.

From what you describe, it sounds like the trouble is in the magazine, as a guess. I would take both to the repair person, and request that they only repair the component that is causing the issue. But be prepared in case they report that both the camera and the magazine should be serviced.

Vincent Boman said:

I live in Stockholm. The two people that I have found here who provide service don't specify for what price, or if, they'll just check a camera.
I'll ask them tomorrow, though I thought I could try to more exactly find out where the problem is before I call.

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Surely someone is Sweden can perform a CLA on a Hasselblad film back.

Vincent Boman said:

When you try to advance the film, the wheel loses grip, and you have to manually advance the film to the next frame with the small silver lever on the C12 magazine.

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Not to be picky but it is called an A-12 magazine. What is likely happening and what 90% of the issues are with almost anything Hasselblad is that the lubrication has reached end of life. So in the case of your back, there is a little swing out cam that is spring loaded and when it gets gummed up with old lube, it does not always swing out and will fail to engage the main wind gear as the body gear turns it while advancing. I just fixed this in one of my backs.

Grim Tuesday said:

In all honesty, Hasselblad backs are not worth the price to repair.

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Mmmm...this is not true anymore, in fact it is the opposite. Good A12 backs in maintainable / repairable condition have skyrocketed in value on the used market and are actually getting hard to find. I bought what I thought was a super mint version III back (12 release, square film reminder slot) and while it was super clean, the drive mechanism was jammed. I paid $280 for the darn thing from Japan and I got the guy to give me a refund of $100. I then sent it off to Dave Odess a couple months ago. Unless you want to pay a rush charge, he takes about three months now. But the real zinger? The repair will cost more than I initially paid for the back so I am paying a grand total of $500 for an A12 back when all is said and done.

On that note, I have 14 Hasselblad backs to maintain so I am going to do all the repairs my self to save time and money. I did the repair on one back that had the same problem the OP had and just did another repair, all around the same issues of old lube. Replacement parts to stock up on would be any springs like the wind return spring and the plastic dog leg that can wear over time.

Ai Print said:

Not to be picky but it is called an A-12 magazine. What is likely happening and what 90% of the issues are with almost anything Hasselblad is that the lubrication has reached end of life. So in the case of your back, there is a little swing out cam that is spring loaded and when it gets gummed up with old lube, it does not always swing out and will fail to engage the main wind gear as the body gear turns it while advancing. I just fixed this in one of my backs.

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It is called a C12 magazine. Look it up, looks different than the A12 model. I don't understand quite what you mean by a swing out cam, though I've always suspected that the error is in the back.
Once in a while you can advance the film entirely with the body crank, so I guess the problem is in the back.

Grim Tuesday said:

In all honesty, Hasselblad backs are not worth the price to repair.

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Vincent Boman said:

It is called a C12 magazine. Look it up, looks different than the A12 model. I don't understand quite what you mean by a swing out cam, though I've always suspected that the error is in the back.
Once in a while you can advance the film entirely with the body crank, so I guess the problem is in the back.

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Ah, right you are, the older back that uses a different start and advance system, they were later replaced with the A12. The cam is the one in this photo in the back in the gear train, might not be the same operation in a C12 back...

Actually, repair for only a magazine is less than 85 dollars at one of the service places.
Though you could probably find a used C12 in the same condition as mine is in for the same price on the Swedish equivalent of eBay, Tradera.
There's none on there right now though. But the price you paid for an A12 magazine in good condition sounded pretty high compared to what it would sell for on Tradera.
Not in super mint, but one in very good condition would probably go for 180 dollars or less at the aforementioned site.

Vincent Boman said:

Actually, repair for only a magazine is less than 85 dollars at one of the service places.
Though you could probably find a used C12 in the same condition as mine is in for the same price on the Swedish equivalent of eBay, Tradera.
There's none on there right now though. But the price you paid for an A12 magazine in good condition sounded pretty high compared to what it would sell for on Tradera.
Not in super mint, but one in very good condition would probably go for 180 dollars or less at the aforementioned site.

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In the U.S. market for A12 backs at least on ebay, the version III or newer tend to be above $200. The one I got from Japan was about as clean as I have ever seen, no light seal wear on the back. It was probably hardly ever used and then got "repaired" by the person selling it and they did a bad job. It's the last A12 I am buying for my fleet of backs, any I buy from here on out will be for parts only. All my backs are the version III type that I have been using since the early 90's.

I get my film backs repaired or CLA'd as necessary. Definitely a worthy expense.

You might consider contacting mikeno62 off youtube.

He's in Denmark, however it might be that your camera would give him fodder for a new repair video on that particular problem or so other issue he needing only a 'C' back to make.

I may be that mikeno62would be willing to either repair it for a lower price or simply use it to make video(s) and send it back repaired.

You have nothing to lose, by asking him directly and seeing if he's interested one way or another in repairing your back.

IMO.

Arthurwg said:

Send the camera and the back to David Odess. Explain the problem. He will fix it.

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His ID information states that he is in Stockholm. Ship it to California??

Grim Tuesday said:

Hasselblad backs are not worth the price to repair. If it's broken, sell it in as-is condition on eBay, for someone else to repair and get yourself a working one

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What decade are you in? A12 backs now cost a bundle. In USA, the type 4 backs are approaching $400 and $500.

I use Mike at Samys to work on my Hasselblads, Hasselblad lenses and Hasselblad film backs for over ten years.
Los Angeles Store & Rentals
431 S. Fairfax Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90036

Telephone: 323-938-2420
Fax: 323-937-2919 | E-Mail: lacamera@samys.com

It does sound like it is a problem with the cam that was described earlier. It is relatively easy to fix. All you need is a set of screw drivers, cleaning alcohol and some sewing machine oil to lubricate it again. I have serviced my own backs with similar error successfully. However, I also decided to have one of my backs serviced professionally since it had a few other minor issues.
If you are handy enough with basic repairs, I suggest you try fix it yourself.

Kodachromeguy said:

What decade are you in? A12 backs now cost a bundle. In USA, the type 4 backs are approaching $400 and $500.

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Seriously. It makes me wonder why someone has not figured out a way to 3D print the components to convert A24 backs to A12. 220 film is not coming back and there are thousands of those backs out there. I keep an eye out for cheap versions of them for parts.

Edit: Sirius pointed out some of my information about the price to pay for a back CLA was incorrect. Kudos to him, it probably is just worth paying for to know you have something that is working perfectly and reliably.

I still think the going rate for backs is crazy.

The market for hasselblad backs is insane for 4 reasons:

1. In my opinion, there is no point to having an A12 back instead of a C12 back. They are functionally identical, and honestly I prefer loading C12 backs and you can check that everything is working if you take a look in the window.

2. There is fundamentally no point to having an A12 back compared to an A24 back. The 24 works with 120 film. This is why no one has been converting them... You just line up the arrow to a different location instead of at the dot and off you go. The spacing is uneven by nature, but you will get 12 pictures and the uneveness will not get worse. I shoot exclusively A24 backs and never lose a shot. By the way, the pressure plate still pushes on the same location on the back as it would if it were an A12 back. My shots are very sharp. For example: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/50135302203/in/dateposted-public/

3. There is a massive preoccupation with "matching insert serial numbers" to get sharper pictures. The pressure plates push on the same place in the back no matter if it's matching or not. Matching serial numbers only affect the machined edge of the insert and how well it fits with the area the dark slide slides against. When light seals are already worn out, non-matching insert backs are likely to show symptoms earlier. But there is no effect on sharpness, and no increased chance light leaks if the light seals have been replaced recently.

4. All the big used retailers treat bad light seals as reason to sell the back in "as-is/fair/for parts" condition, when in reality, replacing the light seals takes about fifteen minutes, a $10 kit, and maybe budget $5 for a screwdriver.

Given all these facts, you can get an A24 back, a C12 back, or a late A12 back with bad seals or non-matching insert for under $50. I've bought all of those within the last few months, so no I'm not in the last decade.

Grim Tuesday said:

4. All the big used retailers treat bad light seals as reason to sell the back in "as-is/fair/for parts" condition, when in reality, replacing the light seals takes about fifteen minutes, a $10 kit, and maybe budget $5 for a screwdriver.

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When a back, lens or camera is listed by a big used retailer "as-is /fair/for parts" condition, a light seal is not going to hack it. And I do not and have never paid $100US or $200US to repair any used Hasselblad film back. I would trust my Hasselblad factory trained repairman to work on my equipment more than I would trust someone who wrote posts making statements like post 23.

Sirius Glass said:

When a back, lens or camera is listed by a big used retailer "as-is /fair/for parts" condition, a light seal is not going to hack it. And I do not and have never paid $100US or $200US to repair any used Hasselblad film back. I would trust my Hasselblad factory trained repairman to work on my equipment more than I would trust someone who wrote posts making statements like post 23.

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Sirius, I checked David Odess's going rate and it's $90 for a back. For some reason I thought it was $200, I must have mixed it up with the price for a shutter repair. My apologies, I actually do retract my opinion on if it's worth it. $90 is fair, and I would rather have a back I know to be 100% CLA'd for $90 than the stuff I get on eBay for $50.

But I do think you overestimate the skill of the graders at Adorama, KEH and Roberts... Maybe B&H still knows their stuff. But I have literally seen stuff listed at the other three in the lowest grade, exclusively for light seal problems.