Problem with adapter for M42 Helios 44-2 to Canon EOS 3000N

vodanh · Jun 13, 2019

I've got an adapter for Helios 44-2 to Canon EOS 3000N. It fits well but there are two problems:
1- The aperture ring is not on the front center of the camera anymore. It locates at the right down side of the camera as follows:
https://i.imgur.com/cvU5vwP.jpg

Does that happen with any adapter? Or is there any way to fix it?

2- Auto mode doesn't work properly, I mean the shutter speed is not correct. At the same situation, and the same aperture and iso, with the default Canon EF lens, the shutter speed was 1/125, but with Helios via adapter it was 1/4. I guess that because the adapter has no chip. Is that true?
Which is the condition of adapter to transfer the correct aperture to the camera?

Please help me.

Thanks.

film_man · Jun 13, 2019

1 it depends on the m42 lens and the adapter, some may align, some may not, depends how well the threads on the adapter are done.

2 the camera has no way of stopping down the aperture neither knows what the aperture is. For metering to work you need to set the aperture to whatever you want it to be *then* meter. Also, make sure that the aperture is stopped down (just see down the front of the lens) when you adjust it. Some M42 lenses have Auto mode which it is expected the camera will stop them down at exposure which of course is not possible with your adapter. So set it to manual, if there is such a switch. There are one or two bodies that don't meter correctly in stop-down mode, I know the Elan7/EOS 30 was one, not sure if the 3000n is another one.

neilt3 · Jun 13, 2019

1. If you bought a cheap Chinese adapter it pot luck if they started the thread in the right position .
Solution , go to a camera shop in the unlikely chance that they have one , and try with your camera and lens till you find one that lines up .
Option 2; buy online from a better source .
It will cost more but will be better quality .

Question 2 ; not all cameras will meter correctly in A mode and set the shutter correctly .
I shoot mainly Minolta and most function correctly with an unchipped adapter .
I'm not sure , but I think the EOS 1 range works without an unchipped adapter , not sure which others .

Answer. ; Shoot manually .
If the camera gives you a meter reading , set the shutter speed manually ( in M mode ) and the aperture on the lens .
If the camera meter reading isn't right , get hand held meter and use that .

Third option , buy a chipped adapter .

Helios 1984 · Jun 13, 2019

1. There's nothing to fix this. I use Soviet lenses on Pentax M42 bodies and the focus ring is not dead center. That's part of the things you have to accept when mixing brands.

2. Do you use an adapter with an AF confirm chip?

vodanh · Jun 13, 2019

Helios 1984 said:
2. Do you use an adapter with an AF confirm chip?

No, the adapter has no chip. Is that the reason?

neilt3 said:
Question 2 ; not all cameras will meter correctly in A mode and set the shutter correctly .
I shoot mainly Minolta and most function correctly with an unchipped adapter .
I'm not sure , but I think the EOS 1 range works without an unchipped adapter , not sure which others .

Answer. ; Shoot manually .
If the camera gives you a meter reading , set the shutter speed manually ( in M mode ) and the aperture on the lens .
If the camera meter reading isn't right , get hand held meter and use that .

Third option , buy a chipped adapter .

I mean, if the adapter has a auto focus chip, then it also transfers the aperture number (on M42) to the Canon body, doesn't it?

darkroommike · Jun 13, 2019

The chip has nothing to do with aperture if is only for AF or in this case MF focus confirmation.
The position of the aperture indicator, if your adapter is made in two parts you may be able to adjust the position of the inner half of the ring so that you can rotate the aperture indicator to the correct 12 o'clock position.
Metering has to be done with the lens stopped down. Most, not all, M42 lenses have a m/a "switch" on the lens barrel so that the lens can be used in a manual stop down mode. The lever should be set to "a" when the lens is used on a Spotmatic type camera.

neilt3 · Jun 13, 2019

vodanh said:
No, the adapter has no chip. Is that the reason?

I mean, if the adapter has a auto focus chip, then it also transfers the aperture number (on M42) to the Canon body, doesn't it?

The adapter can't tell the camera what aperture you've selected as it had no way of knowing .
Even on most M42 bodies , the camera doesn't know the aperture selected .
When metering you have to stop the lens down to the selected aperture and then take the meter reading TTL and then set the shutter speed .
It takes a bit longer to use adapted lenses on an EOS body .

vodanh · Jun 13, 2019

darkroommike said:
The chip has nothing to do with aperture if is only for AF or in this case MF focus confirmation.

Metering has to be done with the lens stopped down. Most, not all, M42 lenses have a m/a "switch" on the lens barrel so that the lens can be used in a manual stop down mode. The lever should be set to "a" when the lens is used on a Spotmatic type camera.

Unfortunately, my lens is not modern enough to have such switch. It's an absolutely analog lens.

May be I didn't make it clear enough here. What I mean by the auto mode on Canon EOS 3000N is not the auto focus mode. It's is the automatic in shutter speed selection, after the manual focus was set. It was indicated by the green rectangular on the left hand side button here:

https://imgur.com/zykKJbB

It also have Av mode, which obviously depends on the chosen aperture, but with the current adapter, the system doesn't know that number (on the LCD screen, its value is 0.0). So, my question actually is, can any adapter with chip solve that?
Or the chip only work for auto focus mode, and announcing the right focus by some sound ?

Bud Hamblen · Jun 13, 2019

On a M42 lens, "manual" means the iris diaphragm stays at the setting you select on the aperture ring all the time, and "auto" means the iris diaphragm is wide open except when you take the picture. When you take the picture the iris diaphragm closes to the set aperture and then opens up again. There is a pin on the back of the lens that is pushed by a plate in the camera to close the iris diaphragm. If your camera doesn't have the plate, the diaphragm on an "auto" lens stays wide open all the time. If you have a lens with the manual/auto switch set it to "manual" to use the lens with a camera without the metal plate. Your adapter probably doesn't have a plate to push the pin on an "auto" M42 lens. You would need to get M42 lenses with the manual/auto switch or else you're shooting wide open all the time. Some f/2 58 mm Helios lenses have the switch and some don't. I have one with and one without. Yours doesn't look like either of mine. There is another complication with "preset" lenses. Those lenses have two aperture rings. One ring has click stops or some sort of lock while the other does not. You set the aperture you want to use on the ring with click stops and use the other ring to go from wide open for focusing to stopped down for shooting. I've got a couple of old lenses like that.

film_man · Jun 14, 2019

So just to clear up:

When you adjust the aperture and you look at the front of the lens, does the aperture open/close? If not then either there's an M/A switch somewhere on the lens OR the aperture is broken.

With regards to the chip: if you add a chip then all it does is enable the focus confirmation dot. There is no way for the lens to transmit the aperture to the camera as there is no linkage between the aperture and the add-on chip. The best you could do is set the wide-open aperture on the chip and that gives a hint to the camera but is not really needed. With a generic adapter without a chip the camera simply meters the light that hits the metering sensor. The aperture is shown as - on the LCD but the camera can still meter. You just need to set the aperture first and then meter. Obviously that makes focusing very difficult once you stop down beyond f/4 so you basically have to open the aperture, focus, close the aperture, meter and shoot but that's the deal with these lenses.

AgX · Jun 14, 2019

In the original M42-system there already could be perceived a deviation of a few degrees. The wide plunger at the body still made the auto-diaphragm function.

Of course a 90° deviation is absurd and has nothing to do with manufacturing tolerances.
In some mount-adapters the M42 threaded part can be rotated after loosening three grub-screws.

Problem with adapter for M42 Helios 44-2 to Canon EOS 3000N

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