Problem develloping Ilfochrome

Inclanfunk · Aug 26, 2007

Hi,
First of all I want to introduce myself as I am new in this forum:

My name is Julien and I live and work in France. I found this site looking for Ilfochrome informations and I read here in a day more than anywhere else in monthes.

I start Ilfochrome this week and already have a unpleasant problem.
Some of my prints present white "leaks" (I don't know the correct word) and so either way I devellop with a wet drum or a completly dry one. I tried adjusting with 120mL or 150mL of solution (I make 30x40cm) and it still the same.
The only time it works was with the two first prints and the last one when I tried a pre-rince during one minute (with temperated water).

To be said as I remember:
- I took the paper out of the fridge just before the session.
- The paper is out of date since 1998.

Thanks in advance for your advices,
Julien.

P.S: I spot with red arrows the "leaks".

Dave Miller · Aug 26, 2007

Welcome to the Forum Julien, especially so since you are using a colour process.
It's a long time since I did any colour printing but I always did a pre-rinse for the reasons you show here. In fact I still use a pre-rinse when using FB paper for the same reason although I only do monochrome work these days.
I'm sure you will get plenty of helpful advice here.

davetravis · Aug 26, 2007

Hi Julien and welcome!
Can you give us more process details?
Is it P30 chems?
Is the whole process in tempered bath?
Do you limit the rinse after the developer to the same volume as the developer?
Is the drum completely dry before you insert paper?
I let my paper come to room temp for 24 hours before using it.
DT

Inclanfunk · Aug 26, 2007

My process:

Is it P30 chems?
Yes

Is the whole process in tempered bath?
Yes

Do you limit the rinse after the developer to the same volume as the developer?
No I pured fare more (three or four times).

Is the drum completely dry before you insert paper?
I did etheir way for the same bad result

I let my paper come to room temp for 24 hours before using it.
You right and I know but remember it too late

Erreur de débutant,
Julien.

P.S: If it's the amount after developer can you explain it?

davetravis · Aug 26, 2007

Sounds like you're very close!
I really don't know why the extra rinse volume affects the next step, but all the Jobo drum instructions require it.
I use the exact amount as the developer for 30 secs.
I'm not sure that's what causing the streaks though.
Are you allowing at least 30 secs to drain each step?
Keep trying!
DT

Inclanfunk · Aug 26, 2007

Thanks for your precious advices, I will try it this week.
Also the new data of drained each step 30 seconds should help...Did not respect this so far.

Thanks again,
Julien.

davetravis · Aug 26, 2007

A sign of good character is gratitude.
Good luck bud.
DT

boyooso · Aug 27, 2007

Julien,

Does the light leak look light water dripping?

Corey

Inclanfunk · Aug 27, 2007

boyooso said:
Julien,

Does the light leak look light water dripping?

Corey

Absolutly, like if a drop runs from one side to the other. On his path the color is toped by a sort of white fog.

You seem to know, isn't it?

Julien.

boyooso · Aug 28, 2007

I had the same sort of drip marks appear on 8x10 film a while back.

Are you using a jobo?

Are the lids to your drums dry? Sometimes water in the light baffle can leak onto the film or paper and cause differential development or bleaching...

Another issue might be the initial moments when the chemicals hit the paper and lack of sufficient chemicals to cover the entire sheet.

Or, the problem might lack of sufficent agitation at the very early moments when the chemicals enter the drum.

I hope that helps.

Corey

boyooso · Aug 28, 2007

I would bet upon liquid in the lid.

Corey

Dave Miller · Aug 28, 2007

One thing with the Jobo drums is that the lid and beaker have to be very thoroughly washed after use. Otherwise on the next use the first few millilitres of developer flowing from the beaker into the drum can become contaminated with old fixer which reduces it’s activity considerably. I’m not sure that is the problem in this case because this type of contamination causes wider marks, but it is something to be aware of.

Inclanfunk · Aug 30, 2007

Solved problem

I am just back from my Ilfochrome session.

I followed what Mr Miller predict and have to say he was completly right.
The first print from an asolut dry drum (unused for days) went out perfectly.
Then I applied my pre-rince step: 300ml of water before the first developing bath.
Doing so diluate the few micro drops that might have survive from previous water cleaning.

All prints went out without troubles.

Thanks everyone.
Julien.

davetravis · Aug 30, 2007

Congrats on your success Julian!

Dug · Aug 30, 2007

Julien

You MUST NOT increase the first rinse volume over the amount of the developer volume or you will get spots (as well as strange red color shifts). I know it is counter-intuitive, but increasing the volume of the first rinse is sure to give you problems. Use the amount of developer specified for the size of papaer you are using, and use the same volume of water for the first rinse.

There is a thread from a while ago where we addressed this issue. I will find the original source material and reiterate it here when I get a chance.

Doug

tim_walls · Aug 31, 2007

Dug said:
Julien

You MUST NOT increase the first rinse volume over the amount of the developer volume or you will get spots (as well as strange red color shifts). I know it is counter-intuitive, but increasing the volume of the first rinse is sure to give you problems. Use the amount of developer specified for the size of papaer you are using, and use the same volume of water for the first rinse.

There is a thread from a while ago where we addressed this issue. I will find the original source material and reiterate it here when I get a chance.

Doug

Ohh, I'm definitely interested in this having just done my first Ilfochrome.

I'm using a Paterson Orbital(1) for 8x10, it's less hassle than the Jobo (I've used the Jobo for larger-than-my-trays B&W prints though and I'll probably use it for large Ilfochromes too,) is the rinse water thing Jobo specific or a general rule with Ilfochrome?

(For washing film in the Jobo I normally do it outside the tempering bath and use running water (at the correct temperature of course) - normally fill then empty the drum repeatedly for the first minute and then running water into the drum for the rest of the wash (assuming something like a 4 minute E6 wash) - I take it this is going to be a bad idea with Ilfochrome then!)

(1) The drying problem is not unique to Jobos - I learnt the hard way that the Orbital has many water-droplet-traps in the lid which will happily knacker your prints unless you dry it very thoroughly before the next print.

Inclanfunk · Aug 31, 2007

Dug said:
Julien
You MUST NOT increase the first rinse volume over the amount of the developer volume or you will get spots (as well as strange red color shifts). I know it is counter-intuitive, but increasing the volume of the first rinse is sure to give you problems...
Doug

I take good note of your advice and will mesure and pure 125 ml of water as a pre-rince step.

My sequence is:

125ml of water for 1 minute
125ml of developer for 4 minutes (working at 22°C)
125ml of water for 30 secondes
125ml of bleach for 4 minutes
125ml of fixer for 4 minutes
Complete wash outside the tank

Now I'm fighting with filtering but that's another problem.

Problem develloping Ilfochrome

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