Problem caused in film developing?

calico · Oct 25, 2021

Hello. I haven't developed my own film in many years. I send to a lab. I'm wondering if people who develop their own film can offer opinion about problems in last film I got back from lab.

Attached are the contact sheets. I blocked out most of the images because they are self-portraits, and I don't like photos of myself on the internet. (I had to leave a couple showing because were in the problem areas.)

Note the areas of light in lower left corners of contacts, in the first frames on rolls. I suspect this was caused by some mistake in the processing, because this is the first time this happened, and I always use the same film back for Tmax or Trix (ie, dedicate one back to those films), and in past two months, I've shot 6 rolls of Tmax in the same back, and with the same Hasselblad, and didn't have this problem. Also, I've shot numerous rolls of other kinds of film (in different backs, but with same camera) and didn't have this problem. So I don't think I have light leaks in film back or camera. Also, the light areas don't really look the way camera or back light leaks look.

In past recent rolls, I do see the light areas at the very edges of film, more so at ends of rolls. Do you think that is because light gets in at edges after roll is shot and taken out of camera? I do keep exposed film in a light-tight box until I mail it off.

But my more importantly, I'm interested in your opinion about the weird light areas at beginnings of rolls on these three contacts. I will be contacting lab but wanted to get some input here first.

I should probably add that the problem is in the negatives, not just on the contact sheets.

Thank you.

mshchem · Oct 25, 2021

Hasselblad backs have a light seal that requires periodic replacement. This is the first place I would look. You can buy a replacement seal on Ebay for $15 or less. All you need are some small screwdrivers and a steady hand. Light leaks around the darkslide seal due to deterioration of foam that supports the seal.

mshchem · Oct 25, 2021

Nice cat, we have a calico called Margot Lane. If you don't think it's the back, I would suspect light strikes of some kind. Lab changing bag?

calico · Oct 25, 2021

mshchem said:
Hasselblad backs have a light seal that requires periodic replacement. This is the first place I would look. You can buy a replacement seal on Ebay for $15 or less. All you need are some small screwdrivers and a steady hand. Light leaks around the darkslide seal due to deterioration of foam that supports the seal.

I've had light seals replaced on my backs in past year or two. I don't think that's the problem. As I mentioned, numerous rolls of film shot from same back, same camera in last two months did not have these light areas.

calico · Oct 25, 2021

mshchem said:
Nice cat, we have a calico called Margot Lane. If you don't think it's the back, I would suspect light strikes of some kind. Lab changing bag?

Nice name for your cat : ) Mine is Gracie. She has untreatable cancer, unfortunately, that's why I was trying to get photos of her with me. She's okay at the moment, knock on wood.

The light is on the first few frames, so that would be part of roll that would be on outermost area of reel, correct (last frames on inside area of reel)? Maybe that's a clue about what happened. Also, it happened in same place on all three reels. Maybe it was a reel that can hold three rolls, and the person accidentally exposed reel to light right momentarily at some point.

Nicholas Lindan · Oct 25, 2021

I have seen this problem with loosely wrapped 120 film - but the problem is on the last frames of the roll and usually with Holgas and their kin.

On the first frames I would suspect the film somehow got loose on the roll in the loading process.

Problems with the light seal on Hassy backs can be intermittent, depends on how that thin plastic flap comes up when the darkslide is removed. This would jibe with the problem being worse on the first frame of the roll as the film spends longer in position #1, from the time the back is loaded to when #2 is exposed, and so the film is exposed to the light leak for a longer period of time.

However, the position of the fogging shifting in the frame speaks against the problem being in the light seal. If it were the light seal then the fogging would be in the same place on each affected frame.

I would load the camera in very dim light then take it out in the sunlight exposing the darkslide slot to the sun while inserting and removing the slide. Take several shots of the lens-cap so the fogging is separate from the subject matter.

The fogging may also be the fault of the processor.

calico · Oct 25, 2021

Nicholas Lindan said:
I have seen this problem with loosely wrapped 120 film - but the problem is on the last frames of the roll and usually with Holgas and their kin.

On the first frames I would suspect the film somehow got loose on the roll in the loading process.

Problems with the light seal on Hassy backs can be intermittent, depends on how that thin plastic flap comes up when the darkslide is removed. This would jibe with the problem being worse on the first frame of the roll as the film spends longer in position #1, from the time the back is loaded to when #2 is exposed, and so the film is exposed to the light leak for a longer period of time.

However, the position of the fogging shifting in the frame speaks against the problem being in the light seal. If it were the light seal then the fogging would be in the same place on each affected frame.

I would load the camera in very dim light then take it out in the sunlight exposing the darkslide slot to the sun while inserting and removing the slide. Take several shots of the lens-cap so the fogging is separate from the subject matter.

The fogging may also be the fault of the processor.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Don't know how film would've gotten loose on roll during loading. I loaded as I always do.

If you enlarge my jpegs and look at the light areas large, there are some weird things: On contact C, in lower left corner, it looks like there are images of folds in the light area and also a black area within the light area with distinct edges. In contact A, on right side of first frame, the light and dark areas have distinct borders. Don't know if those things would be consistent with light leaks. (Maybe I need to upload higher res jpegs for seeing these things.)

I have film in this particular back right now so can't inspect the back. I can see what happens to that roll when it's developed. But now I'm concerned I need to change labs.

Another thing.....all of these images were shot at very slow shutter speeds..... 1/8 to 1 second. But if that were an issue, I'd have problem for all frames on roll.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 25, 2021

Seems like a light leak, and at the start of the roll? I have no clue where you insert the slide into the film back... but maybe that's when it happened?

Sirius Glass · Oct 25, 2021

I have black plastic boxes for 5 rolls and 10 rolls to keep light from leaking in around the edges of the film.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1507121-REG/catlabs_clfb10_film_box_for_10.html

calico · Oct 25, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
I have black plastic boxes for 5 rolls and 10 rolls to keep light from leaking in around the edges of the film.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1507121-REG/catlabs_clfb10_film_box_for_10.html

Thanks. I like the name, too.... Cat Lab.

calico · Oct 25, 2021

As the light areas are more on the left sides of frames than the right, I suppose that does suggest a leak in film back, where dark slide goes in.

On the 201F I used for these photos (I have two 201Fs), I've noticed I sometimes have a hard time getting the dark slide in. I have to fuss with it a little. This is related to the camera, happens with whatever back is on camera. Don't know if this has anything to do with what happened here.

I'm surprised the light seals would be bad already. It really wasn't that long ago that Hasselblad replaced them. Maybe 2 years ago.

AgX · Oct 25, 2021

My first thought, due the location and shape of the fogging was an unsufficiently tightened spool at loading. I am not sure how plausible this is.

Sirius Glass · Oct 25, 2021

calico said:
As the light areas are more on the left sides of frames than the right, I suppose that does suggest a leak in film back, where dark slide goes in.

On the 201F I used for these photos (I have two 201Fs), I've noticed I sometimes have a hard time getting the dark slide in. I have to fuss with it a little. This is related to the camera, happens with whatever back is on camera. Don't know if this has anything to do with what happened here.

I'm surprised the light seals would be bad already. It really wasn't that long ago that Hasselblad replaced them. Maybe 2 years ago.

No it is flipped over. The right side gets fogged with the dark slide seals go bad.

calico · Oct 25, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
No it is flipped over. The right side gets fogged with the dark slide seals go bad.

Oh, yeah, image would be upside down in film back.
Thanks.

calico · Oct 25, 2021

AgX said:
My first thought, due the location and shape of the fogging was an unduly tightened spool at loading. I am not sure how plausible this is.

Hmm. Film too tight? Interesting. Nicholas thought problem may have been caused by film being wound too loose.

That the problem happened on three rolls, I tend to think it wasn't due to something I accidentally did. I've been loading Hassy backs for many years now.

But thanks for your input.

calico · Oct 25, 2021

Nicholas Lindan said:
I would load the camera in very dim light then take it out in the sunlight exposing the darkslide slot to the sun while inserting and removing the slide. Take several shots of the lens-cap so the fogging is separate from the subject matter.

The fogging may also be the fault of the processor.

Good idea about test. I did that when I was having fogging before Hasselblad replaced the seals a couple of years ago. I shone a flashlight where back meets camera.

That this only happened on these last three rolls from this back, though, and all other film from this back (6 rolls in last two months) were perfectly fine, I still tend to think it happened in processing. But I won't know unless I test the back.

Thanks.

MattKing · Oct 25, 2021

calico said:
Another thing.....all of these images were shot at very slow shutter speeds..... 1/8 to 1 second. But if that were an issue, I'd have problem for all frames on roll.

I can think of some convoluted circumstances where extra in camera flare reveals itself only on the first couple of frames could happen, but they aren't likely....

AgX · Oct 25, 2021

calico said:
Hmm. Film too tight? Interesting.

Sorry, my fault, wrong wording. As non-native speaker I still mix up words... Instead of "unduly" tight I meant "unsufficiently" tight.

calico · Oct 25, 2021

MattKing said:
I can think of some convoluted circumstances where extra in camera flare reveals itself only on the first couple of frames could happen, but they aren't likely....

You mean when shutter speed really slow? I was using cable release, too, in case that's relevant.

I'm actually hoping the problem had something to do with the situation (slow shutter speed or something I did) and not the lab. It's so hard to find a lab that will make real dark room contact sheets anymore.

calico · Oct 25, 2021

AgX said:
Sorry, my fault, wrong wording. As non-native speaker I still mix up words... Instead of "unduly" tight I meant "unsufficiently" tight.

Oh, I see. That makes more sense. I was wondering how unduly tight could cause the problem : )

Sirius Glass · Oct 26, 2021

My Hasselblad repair man said to remove the film back from the camera every three months and fire each lens at 1 second for 10 to 15 times to prevent shutter problems.

calico · Oct 26, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
My Hasselblad repair man said to remove the film back from the camera every three months and fire each lens at 1 second for 10 to 15 times to prevent shutter problems.

Agree, that is a good thing to do. But doesn't relate to what happened here. I've been using this camera (201F) very frequently. And the lens, too (which doesn't have a shutter anyway).

I'm going to do light leak test on the film back and see what happens.....

calico · Oct 26, 2021

Thanks, everyone, for your input.

I'm going to do a light leak test on this back. The owner of my lab has been very forthcoming and wants to get to the bottom of the problem, too. I'll let you know what I figure out.

calico · Nov 5, 2021

UPDATE:

Turns out the fogging was caused at lab (as I had suspected originally). After the first three rolls had the fogging I showed in this post, I did flashlight light leak tests on b&w film with my Hasselblads. Sent to lab with a roll of Portra from my Contax 645 which also needed to be developed (regular photos, not tests). There was fogging on the Contax 645 film that exactly matched the fogging on the test b&w rolls -- a length at beginning of roll. When a b&w roll and the Portra roll on a light table together, you could see how the length of the fogging matched exactly. I hadn't had any problems with the Contax previously, and here the fogging had appeared in 645 roll just as in 6x6 rolls -- exact same length, not related to frames.

The lab owner figured out there was a light leak in area where they put film just before it is put in processing machines. Apparently, it had only happened to my film the first time because my film happened to be waiting the longest to be put in the machines. It did happen to someone else's film later.

Relieved not problem with camera. I had contacted Hasselblad USA the other day who said their technician who worked on 200 series cameras has retired, and if I needed a 201F repaired, it would have to be shipped to Sweden. Not a big deal but would probably add to the cost.

The owner of my lab was great through the whole process of figuring out what was going on.

Craig75 · Nov 5, 2021

Always a relief when it's not a camera problem but a fault elsewhere in the chain.

Problem caused in film developing?

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