Pro Lab C-41 Processing Issue - Need Input

[eyetwist]

Here's the situation: Had some film processed at one of the bigger pro labs here in Los Angeles, have been using them for years without issue. They use a dip and dunk system for their C-41 line and process a lot of film on a daily basis.

A couple weeks ago, I dropped off the following medium format (120) order:

4x Portra 160 (fresh), shot normal, process normal

1x Fuji Provia RHP3 400 (expired) shot @200, xpro from E6 to C41, Push +1
1x Kodak E100S (expired), shot @64, xpro from E6 to C41, Push +1
1x Portra 400VC (expired), shot @800, process push +1
1x Portra 400 (fresh), shot @800, process push +1

All the push +1 were shot with different cameras that are known to have no issues.

The four rolls processed normal were fine, no issues.

The four rolls processed push +1 came out blank: NO latent image, NO factory edge numbers/marking. The film was shades of deep tinted color; one roll purplish, another brown, the other two orangeish. Not opaque.

The lab says its a camera problem on my end and/or issues with expired film. That can't be, as the rolls were shot with different cameras, and one of the rolls of film was fresh Portra. I've shot tons of expired film and have seen plenty of base fog and grain, but never completely blank.

I thought that when you end up with film without edge numbers, it either missed the developer or the developer was exhausted.

Any thoughts on what could have happened helpful and appreciated.

 

[foc]

If you have no edge markings then the film wasn't through the developer. That applies to any film, colour or B&W.

Why it happened is a good question. IMO on a dip and dunk the pushed films would be processed separately since standard C41 is 3min 15 sec dev time (@38C)
The normal procedure would be extend the dev time for push process. Changing temps is too awkward.

The blank films suggest to me that it was operator error. The loaded film rack was loaded onto the processor incorrectly and it missed the dev when the lift cycle initiated (it went straight into the bleach). I have seen this happen on 35mm 36 exp film racks on a Durst dip and dunk when I worked in a wholesale lab in the early 1980's.

Maybe some else can throw a better light on it.

 

[CatLABS]

Processing operator error, or freak manufacturing defect - pick the one that is most likely.

Why trust someone making slave wages to process your film when you can do it yourself...

 

[Athiril]

Can you show some pictures of the film

 

[Photo Engineer]

With no edge marking there was a processing error! Regardless of the age or process, blank edges is an operator error at the processing lab.

PE

 

[bvy]

"The lab says its a camera problem on my end and/or issues with expired film."

Accidents happen. But that they would tell you or any uninformed customer this is far more concerning to me. They at least you owe you replacement film. I would insist on it.

 

[Mark Tate]

My guess is that they stuffed up on the processing, if I did not know better it is like they just put it in blix first and did not develop it, maybe the push processing got them all confused, it is something that C41 was never designed to do anyway, personally I do not think it even works.

If it was due to the issues of your camera you mentioned you would think there would be at least something on the negative, just to be sure make sure to look into that first so you do not make a fool of your self. I process a lot of C41 films for friends and family and I do get the odd blank film.

BTW one thing it was not and that was expired film, even 20 year old film would have some image or at the lest a mess on the film.

 

[eyetwist]

Thanks for all the replies. have gone back and forth with the lab owner on this. He's adamant that its impossible for the film to have missed the developer and have gone directly into the blix. He walked me back to the darkroom and showed me the Refrema C41 dip & dunk processor they use (they weren't processing, so lights were on). He's stumped too, but the fact is, the film came out with no edge markings. Thankfully it wasn't a critical job and wasn't anything I couldn't reshoot relatively easily.

 

[labyrinth photo]

Even so the lab owner should realise that "things go bump in the dark" and should investigate. a stripped neg has definitely missed the dev.
did the processor have a single or double dev tank?

 

[Athiril]

The owner would be right on this occasion, it wouldn't skipped the develop stage. The fact that your film bases are coloured and dark rather than clear (for the E-6 film) and light amber (for the C-41 film) shows that they hit the dev.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ahhh, but there are no edge marks.

There would be if they hit the developer.

PE