prints darkening in fixer

Ian Grant said:

By that time Steve you've gone well past the optimum development time.

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Yes, I know. And I never take it that far. What I meant was that once the print seems to be not getting any more density, it's done.


Steve.

Am I the only one who likes his rubber-tipped bamboo tongs for prints up to 11x14 and my bare hands for larger prints? Gee, I never get kinks, fingerprints or anything like that. I've tried plastic tongs and hate them. When developing single smaller prints, I use the the tongs, lifting the print by a corner to drain and transfer. I agitate by gently pushing down the surface of the print with the rubber tips of the tongs... No marks, ever.

For larger prints and batches, I use either two tongs, one in each hand, or my clean, bare hands (I'm not using amidol or glycin). Works fine with no marks. I really don't see how some can damage prints so easily... Maybe my graded papers are more bullet-proof

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You might be the only one who likes "his" bamboo tongs, but I'm one who likes hers. I do my print handling the same way as you. I use VC papers and have only had creases when I do something stupid or when I was first doing 16x20.

Why are you not using stop bath?

The water bath is insufficient to neutralize the developer.

- Leigh

Bamboo tongs are alright so long as you mark them for specific chems and don't cross contaminate, bamboo soaks up some chems. And yes, I know, it may only be a miniscule amount, just call me OCD. The plastic ones I use have latches and a hook on one end, so I can hang my print over the tray for a few seconds before moving on to the next step. I have a different color tong for each tray(yes, call me OCD).

Bamboo tongs are alright so long as you mark them for specific chems and don't cross contaminate, bamboo soaks up some chems. And yes, I know, it may only be a miniscule amount, just call me OCD. The plastic ones I use have latches and a hook on one end, so I can hang my print over the tray for a few seconds before moving on to the next step. I have a different color tong for each tray(yes, call me OCD).

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Everything that touches a chemical gets labeled and only used for that chemical. I might be borderline OCD in how I handle chemicals and tools, but part of that's from working in a lab for 14 years. There, I could grab anything I needed without looking 'cause everything was always in exactly the same spot. I'm not quite that bad in my darkroom. Well, maybe close sometimes.
And I've broken more plastic ones than bamboo, too.

I guess we're cut from the same cloth when it comes to implement placement. I hate bamboo because the rubber tips fall off all the time, and I haven't broken my plastics in 5 years and counting.

Likewise, different tongs for different chemicals: red for developer, white for stop/fix, blue for toner.

I have one set of "bulletproof" rubber tips for my bamboo tongs that are fat and seem to stay on. I change these from tongs to tongs as the bamboo wears out and I have to discard them.

OCD is good in the darkroom

Doremus Scudder

I also have a colour scheme for trays. Red = developer, white = stop, green = fixer.

I only use one set of plastic tongs for all three but they get a quick dip in the stop bath before they go back into the developer (I'm sure someone will tell me why I shouldn't do that!).


Steve.

Maybe because you are introducing stop into the developer and shortening its life span(by ever so little)

winger said:

Everything that touches a chemical gets labeled and only used for that chemical. I might be borderline OCD in how I handle chemicals and tools, but part of that's from working in a lab for 14 years. There, I could grab anything I needed without looking 'cause everything was always in exactly the same spot. I'm not quite that bad in my darkroom. Well, maybe close sometimes.
And I've broken more plastic ones than bamboo, too.

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There is one exception to this. If you do both lith printing and use standard developers, you can actually contaminate your lith developer by using the same tongs as for regular chemistry. Lith printing used to drive me nuts until I started to thoroughly scrub my developer tray after using regular chemistry.

I have these stainless steel tongs that have tips about an inch wide. On the tip is a square inch big rubber material that firmly grabs the corner of a piece of paper, and holds even a sheet of 16x20 paper without any trouble at all. No kinks either.

Back to the OP. You've been advised many things in this thread. To summarize:

1. It doesn't really matter how long you develop your print for, as long as you find what gives the results you like best, and that it's repeatable.
2. Either use running water as stop bath, or better yet an acid stop bath. Agitate. This insures that the developer is neutralized before it goes into the fixer, which would cause problems.
3. Different papers react differently in the fixer, and I have noticed that warmtone papers react by darkening more than neutral tone or cold tone papers. They do in fact seem to darken, or I should say have a boost in contrast, as the unexposed and undeveloped silver is cleared by the fixer.

Good luck. I think you stand a very good chance of easily solving your problems. If you want your prints to last, it is important to neutralize the developer before it goes into the fix, and it's also important to make sure you get all of the fixer out of the print before it's dried. Usually something like a 30 minute was under running water is necessary. Some prefer to use hypo clearing agent to shorten the wash time. I have my washer going for an hour after I'm done with my printing session.

- Thomas

There is one exception to this. If you do both lith printing and use standard developers, you can actually contaminate your lith developer by using the same tongs as for regular chemistry. Lith printing used to drive me nuts until I started to thoroughly scrub my developer tray after using regular chemistry.

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Thanks for the tip! I will likely try lith at some point (especially after seeing all the great examples in the gallery). Trays seem to have bred in my darkroom, so it shouldn't be a problem (I KNOW I didn't buy more than 3 8x10 trays, yet there are now 8).

Thank you everybody, I am now using a stop bath. Everything Thomas said was correct. Everything is going smooth again. I am also trying PF Liquidol, Im really liking it.

winger said:

Thanks for the tip! I will likely try lith at some point (especially after seeing all the great examples in the gallery). Trays seem to have bred in my darkroom, so it shouldn't be a problem (I KNOW I didn't buy more than 3 8x10 trays, yet there are now 8).

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I have some 40"x60" trays in my darkroom. If we could get them to breed I could make some serious bucks. What's your trick, Bethe?

Thomas Bertilsson said:

I have some 40"x60" trays in my darkroom. If we could get them to breed I could make some serious bucks. What's your trick, Bethe?

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It never happens when I'm watching or with things I wish would breed. Though the 8x10 trays are useful for other craft projects (paper marbling).

I have changed from water rinse after developing paper to a mild solution of sodium metabisulphite which is probably more compatible with alkaline/neutral fixers than the usual acetic acid. I use a Nova vertical slot processor that is designed for running water in slot 2 (the old "Chrome" model) but I found that it does take quite a bit of rinsing to ensure that the prints will be free of stains. I have blocked off the drain to that slot so I can fill it with my stop bath. If using FB paper you can't rush it.