Printing with Formulary

[Thomas Satalino]

The moment has arrived. I’ve gotten the chems already. I am about to try to print with photographers Formulary 02-0200 Liquidol Paper Developer, and Formulary TF-5 fixer. I will be using a water rinse in between the developer and fixer. Suggestions on processing times are needed though.... I’m not sure what times to use :/

 

[Gerald C Koch]

If you are using a FB paper then you need a stop bath. It can be omitted for RC papers and film.

 

[dasBlute]

you didn't say RC or fiber paper...

I 2nd what Gerald said about stop bath.

a vanilla, minimalist regime [for fiber papers]

RC ~ 1min in dev ; fiber ~ 2-3 mins [typical, though could depend on your dilution check the label ]
stop ~ 1 min
fix : 5 min with agitation [or 2.5 + 2.5 when using two separate fixing steps]
water holding bath...

wash:
5 minute water pre-wash
5 min hypo-clear
15-30 min water wash

 

[pentaxuser]

Is 5 mins the fix time for both FB and RC and does the wash sequence process and time apply to RC? I had always thought that fix could be a lot shorter especially with FB where you are trying to prevent the fix being absorbed into the paper and I also thought that wash times for RC could be a lot shorter and not involve hypo-clear?

pentaxuser

 

[Photo Engineer]

Check all times and dilutions with test solutions for retained silver and retained hypo. Conditions vary widely around the world.

A stop bath is always recommended.

PE

 

[RalphLambrecht]

If you are using a FB paper then you need a stop bath. It can be omitted for RC papers and film.

fully agree but would expect PE to know that.

 

[voceumana]

Photographer's forumlary says no acid stop bath is needed, but it can be used. See:http://photoformulary.homestead.com/03-0200.pdf

 

[rpavich]

I use
1:00 for dev.

:15 for stop

1:00 for fix.

All times are minimums, going a bit longer won't hurt anything.


BTW: You will LOVE that Liquidol. It's the best paper dev I've used. I'm on a batch that's about a month and a half old and all I do is top it off with fresh after each developing session. It's very yellow but it keeps working just great.

I keep it in soda bottles full to the brim.

 

[Thomas Satalino]

Check all times and dilutions with test solutions for retained silver and retained hypo. Conditions vary widely around the world.

A stop bath is always recommended.

PE

I’m planning on using water for my stop bath for RC paper, so how long should I run the stop bath? Also do I need to use distilled water? And does it need to be filtering? Or can I use tap water with a Kodak tray pump?

 

[rpavich]

I’m planning on using water for my stop bath for RC paper, so how long should I run the stop bath? Also do I need to use distilled water? And does it need to be filtering? Or can I use tap water with a Kodak tray pump?

Why use water?

Water becomes "diluted developer" in short time.

Stop bath is cheap, don't make things difficult on yourself.

I bought a liter of Glacial Acetic acid a year ago for stop bath, it's so concentrated that it cost about 2 cents per gallon to make stop bath.
it's not worth making your fixer go bad faster or your prints not come out as well as they can do cheap out on this part of it.

 

[Thomas Satalino]

Why use water?

To avoid higher costs of mass printing crappy photos that I don’t really care about, and to save room on my darkroom cart that I am wheeling into my 6 foot square bathroom.

 

[rpavich]

To avoid higher costs of mass printing crappy photos that I don’t really care about, and to save room on my darkroom cart that I am wheeling into my 6 foot square bathroom.

Nothing is cheaper than stop bath (nothing that works)

Seriously, don't.

PS: You'll soon find that you won't "print crappy photos that you don't care about" because paper costs money, your time is worth something, film is worth something...you won't do that for long before you say to yourself "why did I even shoot this picture if I didn't intend to print it?" and then be more selective with your shooting.

 

[rpavich]

Glacial Acetic Acid is $34.00 per liter from Ebay

You cut that to 28% solution. 28ML of GAA + water to make 1 liter. That's your "handling solution"
You take that 28% solution and make your stop bath as follows:

42ml of GAA handling solution + water to make 1 liter.

It comes out to about 4 cents per liter to use.


I bought a liter in March of this year, I still have 1 liter of handling solution left which makes 42 more liters of stop bath. I print every day just about and use it for film and paper and it's still going...

That's about as economical as you get.

 

[Thomas Satalino]

Yo

Nothing is cheaper than stop bath (nothing that works)

Seriously, don't.

PS: You'll soon find that you won't "print crappy photos that you don't care about" because paper costs money, your time is worth something, film is worth something...you won't do that for long before you say to yourself "why did I even shoot this picture if I didn't intend to print it?" and then be more selective with your shooting.

You’re probably right, I say crappy photos that I don’t care about because I feel like most of my photos don’t matter to anyone but me. I hope I can figure it out.

 

[Thomas Satalino]

Yo

You’re probably right, I say crappy photos that I don’t care about because I feel like most of my photos don’t matter to anyone but me. I hope I can figure it out.

Also I specifically hoped that by using tf-4 I could avoid using a stop bath for both printing and film. Not because I’m lazy, but because it makes me nauseous, and I have limited space to work.

 

[rpavich]

Yo

You’re probably right, I say crappy photos that I don’t care about because I feel like most of my photos don’t matter to anyone but me. I hope I can figure it out.

Ok...I get it.

 

[rpavich]

Also I specifically hoped that by using tf-4 I could avoid using a stop bath for both printing and film. Not because I’m lazy, but because it makes me nauseous, and I have limited space to work.

All stop baths or just certain ones?
Does vinegar make you queasy?
PS: For film, I think you can get away with water...many folks do (including myself) I use water as a stop for black and white.

 

[Thomas Satalino]

Check all times and dilutions with test solutions for retained silver and retained hypo. Conditions vary widely around the world.

A stop bath is always recommended.

PE

Tf-4 specifically says no stop bath necessary. That’s why I purchased it. If I were to not use a stop, and instead use a water stop bath, how would you suggest I do it? That’s my question.

 

[Thomas Satalino]

All stop baths or just certain ones?
Does vinegar make you queasy?
PS: For film, I think you can get away with water...many folks do (including myself) I use water as a stop for black and white.

Ilford Ilfosol, vinegar, Kodak indicator stop, another one by... sprinter I think?

 

[rpavich]

Tf-4 specifically says no stop bath necessary. That’s why I purchased it. If I were to not use a stop, and instead use a water stop bath, how would you suggest I do it? That’s my question.

For film or paper?

For film, just fill the tank and give 30 seconds of agitation and dump, do it twice. (or even 3 times) I don't think it's significant for film...you go into the fixer pretty quickly.
For paper, just drop the paper in the tray and agitate for 1 minute.
Others who are more knowledgable will chime in on this.

 

[Thomas Satalino]

For film or paper?

For film, just fill the tank and give 30 seconds of agitation and dump, do it twice. (or even 3 times) I don't think it's significant for film...you go into the fixer pretty quickly.
For paper, just drop the paper in the tray and agitate for 1 minute.
Others who are more knowledgable will chime in on this.

Gotcha. Yeah actually for both hah. I full process (as I had planned it) was using tmax400, Rodinal Developer, water stop, tf-4 fix, them go to enlarger next day. Use Ilford multigrade IV RC Deluxe, Liquidol (Formulary) developer, water stop, tf-4 fix, hang to dry......

 

[rpavich]

Gotcha. Yeah actually for both hah. I full process (as I had planned it) was using tmax400, Rodinal Developer, water stop, tf-4 fix, them go to enlarger next day. Use Ilford multigrade IV RC Deluxe, Liquidol (Formulary) developer, water stop, tf-4 fix, hang to dry......

You are good to go, the question will be...when is your fix exhausted and how will you know?

You don't want to fix a bunch of prints only to find your fixer was exhausted a day ago or something.

I use Hypo-check from B&H. You drop a drop in before you start to print, and then every once in a while during printing and once at the end. That way you know that all of your prints are fixed sufficiently. If at any point the Hypo-Check goes white when you drop it in...you know you have to refix the prints.
I bought a bottle January of 2016 and I'm still using it. It's cheaper than dumping fixer too early and better than finding out your prints won't last.

 

[Thomas Satalino]

You are good to go, the question will be...when is your fix exhausted and how will you know?

You don't want to fix a bunch of prints only to find your fixer was exhausted a day ago or something.

I use Hypo-check from B&H. You drop a drop in before you start to print, and then every once in a while during printing and once at the end. That way you know that all of your prints are fixed sufficiently. If at any point the Hypo-Check goes white when you drop it in...you know you have to refix the prints.
I bought a bottle January of 2016 and I'm still using it. It's cheaper than dumping fixer too early and better than finding out your prints won't last.

Great idea. Probably worth it.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Glacial Acetic Acid is $34.00 per liter from Ebay

You cut that to 28% solution. 28ML of GAA + water to make 1 liter. That's your "handling solution"
You take that 28% solution and make your stop bath as follows:

42ml of GAA handling solution + water to make 1 liter.

It comes out to about 4 cents per liter to use.


I bought a liter in March of this year, I still have 1 liter of handling solution left which makes 42 more liters of stop bath. I print every day just about and use it for film and paper and it's still going...

That's about as economical as you get.

If 1 ml diluted to 100 ml is 1% then 28% diluted to 1 liter is 2.8%

Yes, a real acidic stop is recommended for paper. Size does matter!

You have non-uniformity problems with paper, and can get it with TF4 or TF5, whichever you use, due to the carryover of developer. The longer you use plain water, the more like your developer it becomes. Use acid stop at about 1.4% or white Vinegar diluted.

PE

 

[Gerald C Koch]

To avoid higher costs of mass printing crappy photos that I don’t really care about, and to save room on my darkroom cart that I am wheeling into my 6 foot square bathroom.

A brief rinse in running water is all that is necessary. Any developer is mostly ON the RC paper and not IN it as with FB papers.